Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The American Press Is Destroying Itself

taibbi.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 618 posts

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#301

Post by dillondoyle »

xg15 wrote: post #283

> I always question, why does a Black life matter only when a white man takes it?... I mean, Lacy does have a point that this kind of question in the context of the protests is nothing more than distracting. The protests are about systematic discrimination of black people. No one questioned that black people can also be perpetrators - it's just irrelevant to the topic at hand. Would nazis running concentration camps…

Writing about the protests, my mom recently told me 'It is a sad fact that most of the crime is black on black' among other things that are SO frustrating that I gave up on trying to reply back.

Like to me that statement is a non sequitur, and says either:

that the cause of increased violence is systemic adverse conditions and outright theft of wealth/quality of life over 400 years making communities tough to succeed in (doubt my Mom understands this)

or that if this is not true, that POC are somehow more violent as a race. Some Stoddard, Günther eugenics BS.

All my parents thoughts about the protests have these racist undertones and I don't know how to open my parents to education and understanding - and it's also scary with the election they would never vote Trump but his Reagan esque re-launch next week seems like this is his new strategy.

Just googling now I found this PDF, maybe I try sending that https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/centers/wien...

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#302

Post by rickyplouis »

Before reading this I had a feeling it was related to the James Bennet situation at the Times. I've been following the narratives unfolding around news rooms and I would offer this article as a counter narrative to the one being portrayed in this piece.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/business/media/new-york-t...

If you look at the James Bennet situation specifically, he willingly published a piece that he said could be dangerous. He tweeted the following

"We understand that many readers find Senator Cotton's argument painful, even dangerous. We believe that is one reason it requires public scrutiny and debate."

While this sounds like a noble undertaking of the advancement of public discourse, black journalists have publicly condemned this act because it will put their lives in danger. The problem is that Bennet and many other journalists believe it is ok to push dangerous, even racist narratives in pursuit of "objectivity". For many non-black journalists these debates are exciting and stimulating, but for black people these debates are validating toxic ideologies by giving them a platform to spread.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#303

Post by Bud »

"The American press is destroying itself."

...says Matt Taibbi, who has actually been destroying himself and his reputation continuously for about 10 years now.

In this piece, Taibbi straight-up lies about the fascist op-ed from Tom Cotton in the NYT. I guess he thinks we're all too stupid to notice when he completely skips over everything that made Cotton's piece so offensive, including Sen. Cotton calling for "no quarter" against protestors, which is effectively state-sanctioned murder.

Taibbi also skips over the key problem with the now-fired NYT editor's conduct: the fact that he admittedly did not even read Cotton's op-ed before approving it."

There is a reasonable debate to be had over whether the Cotton op-ed should have been run or not, with many reasonable folks on both sides, but Taibbi's take is one of the worst I've seen and does not honestly portray the issues involved.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#304

Post by 54351623 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

I don't know, I think you'll wind up with a bunch of journalists charging independently to produce media, such as the author of the piece does or something like the kickstarters that produce long form docs.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#305

Post by js2 »

Animats wrote: post #261
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. I suspect that's correct. It's hard now to find any news outlet now that sticks to "Who, What, When, Where, Why". This is a consequence of pay per click, probably. The left and the right now both have a checklist of mandatory positions required to avoid punishment. Those positions are in many cases contrary to fact. That's not good. Denial has become a cor…

I'm 48. My family had a newspaper subscription (in my case, the Miami Herald). I've been a consumer of news all my life, mostly print media. (My family rarely watched local news except for when a hurricane was headed our way, but would often watch programs like 60 minutes.)

When was the news ever "Who, What, When, Where, Why?"

It's always had a slant as long as I remember. Here's "the most trusted man in America" calling ror the U.S. to get out of Vietnam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn2RjahTi3M

What is that if not a partisan political opinion?

The news has always chosen what and what not to report. Just deciding what is and isn't newsworthy is a political decision. Heck, my conservative friend used to read the Wall Street Journal. I'm talking when we were kids (10-12) I'd argue with him about whether Reagan was a good president. I thought even then he had a highly colored view of reality and I'm sure he thought the same of me.

BTW, I don't think the problem is the press. I think it's a lack of open-mindedness, critical thinking, and healthy skepticism. We get what we deserve by not educating our kids better about how to consume information and consider view points outside their own worldview.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#306

Post by csallen »

flyinglizard wrote: post #291
xg15 wrote: post #283

> I always question, why does a Black life matter only when a white man takes it?... I mean, Lacy does have a point that this kind of question in the context of the protests is nothing more than distracting. The protests are about systematic discrimination of black people. No one questioned that black people can also be perpetrators - it's just irrelevant to the topic at hand. Would nazis running concentration camps…

Do you feel like there are many parallels between being a Jew in 1939 Germany and being a black person in 2020 USA?

That's not how analogies work, so this is completely missing the point.

For example, if you say the Colosseum is to Rome what a roller coaster is to an amusement part, you are not saying that the Colosseum is similar to a roller coaster. No, what you're comparing is the Colosseum's relationship to Rome and the rollercoaster's relationship to the amusement park.

xg15's analogy isn't meant to equate Black people in America in 2020 to Jewish people in Nazi concentration camps. Rather, it's meant to compare the irrelevance of intra-Jewish violence in the face of Nazi violence to the irrelevance of intra-Black violence in the face of police violence.

Always surprising to me how the basic structure of analogy is so commonly misunderstood.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#307

Post by desertrider12 »

maps7 wrote: post #294
desertrider12 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist has high quality news. It has a slight free market/neoliberal bias on economic issues, but for politics it's just the facts. Wikipedia is actually a decent free news source too, since articles about current events get updated and reviewed frequently.

Thanks! I actually already donate to Wikipedia but I don't use it as news. Do you specifically mean Wikinews [1]? [1] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page

I've never been to wikinews before, but it looks like exactly what I was talking about. They have a prioritized list of articles that need to be reviewed for bias and accuracy, so that's really good.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#308

Post by scruple »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #236
humanrebar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you concerned about the increasing cultural divisions in the U.S.? Seems like the NYT giving up the pretense of being a general purpose news organization is a loss for those hoping for cultural reconciliation at some point.

I think it's fairly clear that there will not be a cultural reconciliation, at least not in the sense of an acceptance of mutual differences. What even is the "cultural right" anymore? It has devolved into a movement defined by opposition to the left's social initiatives.

You can swap "left" and "right" in your comment and it would lose no substance and it's meaning would not change.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#309

Post by beams_of_light »

quickthrowman wrote: post #66
ttonkytonk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only European American racism matters (or even exists). That African Americans cannot be racist.

African Americans can be racist. What they lack is the might and power of the US justice system, politicians, and the media behind them. That power turns white racism into a much more powerful force than African Americans that hate white people. Racism without an overwhelming power differential is just angst. Typically people that feel oppressed hate the group they’re being oppressed by. I’m sure you would too.

Well put. I wish we could broadcast this over the news and put it on billboards.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#310

Post by DenisM »

rickyplouis wrote: post #302

Before reading this I had a feeling it was related to the James Bennet situation at the Times. I've been following the narratives unfolding around news rooms and I would offer this article as a counter narrative to the one being portrayed in this piece. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/business/media/new-york-t... If you look at the James Bennet situation specifically, he willingly published a piece that he said co…

> he willingly published a piece that he said could be dangerous.

That’s rich. No, he did not say that. He said some readers may find it dangerous. It does not mean he himself finds it dangerous.

Post reply on HN