The American Press Is Destroying Itself • Hacker News Board

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#271

Post by SomeoneFromCA » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #189

roenxi wrote: post #7

I think this piece rambles on against the far-left a bit to much to be useful. The political dialogue is currently in territory that is Important. Normal families are under significant financial pressures, the legitimacy of major institutions (police, presidential elections, government solvency) is open to questioning. Global conditions are tense, let alone America's internal problems. This is a time for sober discus…

> I think this piece rambles on against the far-left a bit to much to be useful. The NYT is far-left? Self-censorship in there is one of the core topics of the article. And many other mainstream left (and some not even political) journals are mentioned. It doesn't feel like you've read the article in any depth if that's your takeaway.

NYT cannot be far-left, being a huge capitalist institution. It just an oxymoron. It clearly is a far-democratic, whatever the DP agency is, at a particular moment.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#272

Post by SomeoneFromCA » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #223

hobs wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry. When you find yourself being called a bigot and white supremacist repeatedly, its probably not "the left" that's the problem.

This viewpoint makes zero sense to me: - protesting starts - some protestors get violent - President says "let's use the military to end violence" And you come away with "our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry" . What?

Protesters who have been protesting unfair prices in Apple stores, apparently.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#273

Post by DagAgren » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #95

CydeWeys wrote: post #63

I agree with some of this, but I just personally can't bring myself to care about the firings of the editors responsible for "Send in the troops" and "Buildings matter, too". A lot of my friends unsubscribed from the NY Times for publishing Tom Cotton's pro-fascism op-ed. The NY Times had to respond to this. They are a business and their income matters. It's not so much an issue of freedom of thought in the newsroom,…

Are you concerned about the increasing cultural divisions in the U.S.? Seems like the NYT giving up the pretense of being a general purpose news organization is a loss for those hoping for cultural reconciliation at some point.

Do you really want to "culturally reconcile" with people who want to send the army to quell peaceful protests?

That is not a view that you can build a democracy on. To have democracy, you have to exclude certain ideologies and ideas. This has always been the case and will always remain the case. Some ideologies are antithetical to democracy, and that article espoused one of them.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#274

Post by xg15 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

> But that's the way our economical system work. It assumes that the markets balances things out. Unfortunatly, the common good is not something most individuals prioritize, or even conceptualize, when buying things.

I mean, those kinds of market failures are exactly what large parts of "the left" are frequently highlighting.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#275

Post by beams_of_light » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

infogulch wrote: post #17

The US seems to have fallen into a game-theoretic local minimum where each party lets their crazy cousin go throw dumb rocks at the opposition because it seems to be the optimal way to drum up fanatic support for their side, all the while whistling as if in ignorance of what's going on. At least that's how it seemed to start, now it's just devolved to outright scat slinging that's co-opted our system of government in…

First, this is conservative propaganda masquerading as intellectual analysis, and I'm surprised it's made it this far on HN.

Where this prescription falls short of the cure: the most extreme are also the most vocal, and are the ones creating change. Regardless of which side we're on, we're letting them speak for us and pull as hard as they can in the direction we want the needle to move.

As a moderate liberal, if someone I know says they're allowing their child to choose their gender or that they want to shut down police departments, I try to keep an open mind, but don't really feel the same way they do.

I imagine moderate conservatives probably grin and bear a lot of racism, misogyny, and toxic nationalism by the same token.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#276

Post by iso947 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #223

hobs wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry. When you find yourself being called a bigot and white supremacist repeatedly, its probably not "the left" that's the problem.

This viewpoint makes zero sense to me: - protesting starts - some protestors get violent - President says "let's use the military to end violence" And you come away with "our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry" . What?

Your president literally ordered a military attack on peaceful citizens for a photo-op.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#277

Post by maps7 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

On a side note, does anyone subscribe to any good news/information site? I would like to subscribe to something good and know I'm supporting it.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#278

Post by AnimalMuppet » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #218

phaus wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I was talking about. You make a bunch of assumptions about peoples' political opinions that are incorrectly portraying them as centrists and supporters of nazis if they don't adopt your world view. "Us or them" is killing America. Lack of nuance and intelligent discourse is destroying us. There's more to the extreme left than "Everyone deserves to be treated equally and with dignity." Politics in…

I mean, Donald Trump literally reversed transgender health protections this week. If you're voting for a Republican, you're voting for the party of Donald Trump and efforts like that which take away the rights of certain classes of citizens. You can't vote for a party and try to avoid taking the whole package deal. You get what you voted for.

But that logic means that if I vote for a Democrat, I'm also taking the whole package deal. And, bluntly, there aren't very many people that actually support all of that package deal.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#279

Post by nimvlaj30 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #263

WalterBright wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're always beholden to the paymaster.

Case in point, the BBC does a lot of good reporting in general, but they're rarely critical of the government. It may not even be possible for them to cover politics in a "neutral" way, because anything but the party line on a political issue is heresy to the partisans. If you gave people the hard truths on partisan issues you'd have both sides trying to shut you down because everything you said would be contradictin…

Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) has been rightly critical of our government, and has been hit with pay cut after pay cut.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#280

Post by klyrs » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #228

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

The press as a high minded arbiter of truth is a relatively new concept; historically journalism has been bitterly partisan and often misleading at best. Arguably the current trend is a return to historical norms, not an aberration to be feared.

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