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Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

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Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#341

Post by notsag-hn »

chii wrote: post #201
notsag-hn wrote: post #179

I struggle to understand how people work hard to build they dream technology, they are also lucky enough for it to take off like zoom in this case, and then they go ahead to do nasty stuff and to fuck up their users! I hope one day we'll really condemn and stop using apps/social media for things like this.

if you switched 'Zoom' with 'Google' in the above, would you have made a different argument?

I would put Google there for sure! Google is nasty at other scales anyways. As search engine I use Duckduckgo, but sometimes we don't have much of an option with Google, do we? Mainly on mobile, which the option is Apple, not great.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#342

Post by crazygringo »

augustt wrote: post #331
crazygringo wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When will this meme die? Zoom is NOT a Chinese company. It is incorporated in and headquartered in the US. Like any American company ever, it follows US laws in the US, and local laws in other companies where it operates. End of story. Yes their culture certainly has stronger cultural internal ties to China, due to the number of Chinese employees, but what has that got to do with anything? At the end of the day, they…

When will the meme that hating an organ harvesting totalitarian government == racism die?

So explain to me -- since Zoom is not a Chinese company, then what's the purpose of falsely claiming that it is?

If it isn't meant to tap into some kind of prejudice against Chinese people, then what is the purpose of spreading false rumors like that?

You can of course be against the Chinese government. But when you start fearmongering that a public American company is "actually Chinese", "more than commonly discussed"... based on zero evidence except that the company has a lot of Chinese people... then if it's not meant to trigger veiled racism, what is it meant to trigger otherwise?

Since, again, Zoom is not part of and has nothing to do with the Chinese government, except for when it obeys the government in its operations within China, like every other American company has to do too.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#343

Post by codekansas »

xster wrote: post #27

I mean our Twitter and Facebook have been shutting down accounts from elected offices of NATO "targets" like Venezuela and Iran for a while now https://thegrayzone.com/2020/01/12/us-pressure-social-media-... . I don't see people up in arms saying "legality is irrelevant".

Do you have a more reliable source than this website? I worked on content moderation at Facebook for several years, I highly doubt that the accounts were deleted because of government pressure

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#344

Post by thedragonbabe »

echelon wrote: post #172
ct520 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL for real. I will cry no tears for FB when they get what’s coming to them. Will be the MySpace of my kids time.(if it’s not already is)

As bad as Facebook is, it's being supplanted by the CCP-controlled TikTok. That's almost certainly worse for freedom.

Exactly

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#345

Post by dehrmann »

ridewinter wrote: post #272
dehrmann wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m have a hard time believing their product isn’t going to meet massive amounts of competition very soon. There have been several vendors doing this for years. Google Hangouts, Skype, BlueJeans, Webex. Zoom just did it better. Except for security; Zoom doesn't understand security.

Paul Graham tweeted the other day about the opportunity to supplant Zoom with something better. Zoom doesn't seem to have much of a moat, right? Most users aren't even logged in.

Its only moat is a better experience than competitors. This shouldn't be much of a moat, but having used competitors' products, it somehow is.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#346

Post by mindB »

gonehome wrote: post #14

“The reality is Zoom operates in more than 80 countries and continues to expand, which requires compliance with local laws even as Zoom seeks to promote the open exchange of ideas.“ This kind of rationalization isn’t just a problem with Zoom, Apple does the same thing - blocking podcasts and other apps in the Chinese market (also the Taiwan flag emoji). This is wrong. What’s legal and what’s right are not the same th…

I'm 100% in agreement with you. Laws and ethics are only tenuously linked, and we must expect companies (made up of people) to act ethically first and foremost.

It's interesting watching you expressing that opinion in opposition to the Chinese government/Zoom getting a very positive reaction. When I expressed a similar sentiment about the Spanish government/Github a few months ago, the reaction was much more mixed[1]. I wonder if it has more to do with the parties involved or just changing opinions.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21398271

EDIT: scrolling further down, the reaction to your comment is far more negative than I had originally thought.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#347

Post by TheKarateKid »

bad_user wrote: post #194
HALtheWise wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…

US copyright is enforceable overseas due to trade agreements. As a US citizen do you think you can infringe EU's copyright law? It is true that US's culture has spilled into the terms of use of some of these services. I still remember the "napalm girl" being censored on Facebook for public display of nudity. However these aren't examples of individuals being targeted by the US government. Also just because there are…

There are plenty of countries that US copyright law is enforced on a US company's platform even though there are NO trade agreements with the US with respect to copyright. Otherwise, piracy would be allowed to be hosted in numerous countries.

It's a blatant double standard.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#349

Post by Medicalidiot »

crazygringo wrote: post #342
augustt wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When will the meme that hating an organ harvesting totalitarian government == racism die?

So explain to me -- since Zoom is not a Chinese company, then what's the purpose of falsely claiming that it is? If it isn't meant to tap into some kind of prejudice against Chinese people, then what is the purpose of spreading false rumors like that? You can of course be against the Chinese government. But when you start fearmongering that a public American company is "actually Chinese", "more than commonly discusse…

>Zoom's product development team is largely based in China

The main players are under CCP command.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_Video_Communications#Work...

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#350

Post by TheKarateKid »

HALtheWise wrote: post #36
monocasa wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, as absolutely reprehensible Apple's similar actions are, Zoom canceled _a US based account_ because of a Chinese request. It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Like, I think companies should take a stand and both aren't acceptable, but Zoom takes new, additional steps here.

Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…

This double standard is an excellent point.

For example, US companies have no problem enforcing US copyright law in countries that have no such laws or trade agreements with the US. Otherwise, piracy would be allowed on sites like YouTube as long as the uploader was from one of these countries. Yet, US laws of free speech no longer seem to matter if the user is in an oppressive country.

The selective enforcement of US law to non-US users is a terrible double standard that needs to change.

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