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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#841

Post by rantwasp »

binaryfour wrote: post #309
superfrank wrote: post #288

Oh, Jesus Christ... I live about 3/4s of a mile from the "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone". The way people are talking about this is ridiculous. It's basically a bunch of wannabe Marxists LARPing. They call the area "self-governed" and "abandoned", but the city had workers mowing the grass at Cal Anderson Park, two days after it was "established". There are cops sitting like 10 blocks away in case things get out of hand…

> If you want to see a real "Autonomous Zone" in Seattle, 3rd and Pike is your spot. The cops let pretty much anything go there and it's a crap hole. Too true

too too true. for more color, the locals call that area McStabbys (also heard CrackDonals). It’s really really bad

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#842

Post by DenisM »

toofy wrote: post #785
jimbokun wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of these protests is that the violence is not occasional. It is endemic, and attempts to stop it stretch back centuries. I feel like these statements need to be qualified to be useful. Has the level of police violence over the years gotten worse, gotten better, or stayed roughly the same? How does the overall levels of violence compare to places without an organized police force?

> Has the level of police violence over the years gotten worse, gotten better, or stayed roughly the same? I understand why some people’s initial instinct is to believe this is a new problem, but groups have been desperately trying to get people’s attention about police violence for decades. Rodney King was nearly 30 years ago. And people were crying for help long before that. I knew there was a problem before, but s…

You have avoided answering the question you have quoted. It’s an important question.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#843

Post by DenisM »

skissane wrote: post #766
jakelazaroff wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we tolerate the police for a few hundred years now - on occasion they cause violence that's predictable and can be influenced. The point of these protests is that the violence is not occasional. It is endemic , and attempts to stop it stretch back centuries . It has persisted across the country, under both progressive and conservative politicians, despite many, many attempts to eliminate it. If the viol…

A question – is the problem with police, or is the problem with US police specifically? Do we have the same problem with police in other countries? Canadian police? UK police? Police in EU countries? If the US police have this problem and other (wealthy democratic) countries don't – or even if comparable countries have the problem too, just not quite as bad as the US has it – what makes US police different? Racism an…

In the US it is believed the opposite - more local power structures are easier to influence through local elections. It may not be a huge problem on the scale of Portugal, but as countries get larger things get worse. Imagine the entire EU having one police force - how do you go about changing anything? In the US you can run for mayor or City Council, much more direct connection.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#844

Post by DenisM »

loeg wrote: post #781
DenisM wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best. I did not know that. Do you have a reference to back this up?

Chief Best said so herself at the June 11 press conference[1]. 18:22: Reporter: "So, Chief Best, you stood here on Friday and you said it was going to be your decision and your decision alone to use tear gas. Tear gas was deployed on Sunday. You released a video today to say that it was not your decision to close the East Precinct. So who is making tactical decisions right now, for the Seattle Police Department?" 18:…

Thank you.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#845

Post by binaryfour »

rantwasp wrote: post #841
binaryfour wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to see a real "Autonomous Zone" in Seattle, 3rd and Pike is your spot. The cops let pretty much anything go there and it's a crap hole. Too true

too too true. for more color, the locals call that area McStabbys (also heard CrackDonals). It’s really really bad

LOL I used to switch buses there and "CrackDonalds" is way too fitting of a name

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#846

Post by mrep »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #470
djsumdog wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived there in 2016, next to the Rite Aid outside (or maybe inside?) the CHAZ. The homeless situation was absolutely terrible for an American city. Sure it's not as bad as shanty towns I've seen in India or Malaysia, but it wasn't good. Housing was/is insane with shared rooms anywhere near the city being $700 and a 1 bedroom to yourself going for ~$2k. Not as bad as SF/The Bay, but still not good by any means. Sure…

I lived 1 block from there, by Lindas until a year ago. What kind of interactions with homeless people did you have to say it is absolutely terrible? I occasionally saw a homeless person, but that was about the worst of it. And I was out on the town a lot. Oh my car got broken into once as well. Once in 11 years.

My girlfriend got chased by some guy openly masturbating while walking back from class at Seattle University. Here's another person's experience [0]. We have since moved out of the state.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20422473

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#847

Post by rantwasp »

binaryfour wrote: post #845
rantwasp wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

too too true. for more color, the locals call that area McStabbys (also heard CrackDonals). It’s really really bad

LOL I used to switch buses there and "CrackDonalds" is way too fitting of a name

hahahah. the shit i’ve seen there waiting for the bus will also last me for a lifetime.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#848

Post by asguy »

loeg wrote: post #752
latencyloser wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's fair. One could also just make one pretty easily, it doesn't require too much knowledge to modify an existing semi-automatic.

> One could also just make one pretty easily, it doesn't require too much knowledge to modify an existing semi-automatic. Sure, you can make an unreliable automatic from a semi-auto easily. But it's a far cry from a commercial/military product.

I would check your sources on that. As one example, there are plenty of registered legal “Lightning Links” in the US. They are drop-in fully automatic on many (otherwise) unmodified AR-15 variants. With small exception, they shoot and cycle just fine. They’re literally just one small piece of steel.

One could make [1] their own in 2020 illegally with the hand tools you find at an Ace Hardware Store.

[1] - http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/pdf/fast_bunny.pdf

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#849

Post by monocasa »

zaarn wrote: post #801
monocasa wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm just on the side of: if the only thing we think police should be doing is something they already legally don't have to do, achieving the goal of getting that covered is better handled by tearing the entire system down and building a new system with a new name and new members than trying to force reform on orgs that have fought it tooth and nail. The actors that have gotten rulings like Warren v. District…

That's what I pointed out upthread, tear it down and rebuild it.

I guess the point I'm dancing around is that words have power, and rebuilding a force called police is still a half measure. Don't just rebuild, but instead create a new force with a new name as part of gaining new semantics. People bring baggage with them when you use the same words.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#850

Post by throwaway894345 »

jatone wrote: post #814
throwaway894345 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. You can assert your rights all the livelong day, but without a criminal justice apparatus all you have are a gun and some fine words. Given the relatively high mortality among armed gang members in America's underpoliced inner cities, your gun isn't the reason you and yours enjoy relatively low mortality--the difference is either one of policing or fine words, and I'm pretty sure it's not the la…

police are not the reason we have safety. a police force doesn't prevent you from being attacked, they only dispense justice after the fact and only sometimes. welfare, courts and legal systems have a far larger impact than police as a means to prevent violence by having a peaceful way to resolve issues between individuals and ensuring basic needs are met. they also happen to be cheaper. most violence happens at the…

Yes, I was using police as a shorthand for the criminal justice system. The fear of being caught and sentenced has a deterring effect on crime. The criminal justice system, however, depends on police, and police officers visible in the community also deters crime.
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