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Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

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Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#321

Post by dathinab »

gonehome wrote: post #14

“The reality is Zoom operates in more than 80 countries and continues to expand, which requires compliance with local laws even as Zoom seeks to promote the open exchange of ideas.“ This kind of rationalization isn’t just a problem with Zoom, Apple does the same thing - blocking podcasts and other apps in the Chinese market (also the Taiwan flag emoji). This is wrong. What’s legal and what’s right are not the same th…

> This kind of rationalization isn’t just a problem with Zoom, Apple does the same thing - blocking podcasts and other apps in the Chinese market (also the Taiwan flag emoji).

Honestly the US could kinda easily look it down. They already use and abuse the position they have to force all kind of trade regulations on companies, even such not seated in the US. They could use the same system to force companies to not undermine free speech, opinion and press.

Through it won't happen as the people currently in power are them-self interested in undermining free speech, free opinion and free press....

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#322

Post by Aunche »

komali2 wrote: post #306
Aunche wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to disagree that the US treats its citizens better, but we're talking about country's foreign influence here. China doesn't cripple the economy or bomb other countries they disagree with.

Do they not? They certainly were willing to outright invade a sovereign nation of mostly peaceful monks (Tibet) with ground forces, then claim the territory as its own, something I don't think the USA has done since Puerto Rico (the expansionism specifically). They also challenge the sovereignty of Taiwan regularly - it was China who refused to allow two sovereign nations of Chinese origin when the UN switched the Ch…

China's invasion of Tibet was just a battle between two warlords, much like those that occurred before it. China didn't start terrorizing peaceful monks until the Cultural Revolution, well after China incorporated Tibet.

> Give China time and I expect they'll start doing the same.

Fair enough, but I hope the US and China incentivize each other to not impose their will on the rest of the world.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#323

Post by biscottigelato »

xyproto wrote: post #149
monocasa wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, as absolutely reprehensible Apple's similar actions are, Zoom canceled _a US based account_ because of a Chinese request. It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Like, I think companies should take a stand and both aren't acceptable, but Zoom takes new, additional steps here.

But that was a mistake, and they promptly restored the US based account?

Sure, but CCP's goal have been achieved. Conspiracy theorist would validly suspect that Zoom have been working with the CCP and they have compromised and agreed to do this one time thing then back track. Getting what the CCP needs (censor Tiananman Square discussion during the peak of US/China tension) while preserving Zoom's long term business interest.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#325

Post by alexryan »

monocasa wrote: post #20
gonehome wrote: post #14

“The reality is Zoom operates in more than 80 countries and continues to expand, which requires compliance with local laws even as Zoom seeks to promote the open exchange of ideas.“ This kind of rationalization isn’t just a problem with Zoom, Apple does the same thing - blocking podcasts and other apps in the Chinese market (also the Taiwan flag emoji). This is wrong. What’s legal and what’s right are not the same th…

Also, as absolutely reprehensible Apple's similar actions are, Zoom canceled _a US based account_ because of a Chinese request. It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Like, I think companies should take a stand and both aren't acceptable, but Zoom takes new, additional steps here.

An important point is being missed in this conversation. The CCP can and does threaten the lives of the family of any Chinese person who does not do as they are told by the party. This gives them "extra leverage".

As the CCP ambassador to Sweeden said recently: “We treat our friends with fine wine, but for our enemies we got shotguns.”

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#326

Post by crazygringo »

throwaway0613 wrote: post #118

Bear in mind that Zoom is a Chinese company — the founding team is Chinese; the core engineering and ops teams are largely in Suzhou and Hangzhou. So, while they are incorporated in the US and have significant presence in their HQ, their ties to China are stronger than the more-commonly-discussed outsourced-engineering sort of relationship.

When will this meme die?

Zoom is NOT a Chinese company. It is incorporated in and headquartered in the US. Like any American company ever, it follows US laws in the US, and local laws in other companies where it operates. End of story.

Yes their culture certainly has stronger cultural internal ties to China, due to the number of Chinese employees, but what has that got to do with anything? At the end of the day, they're a public, profit-driven corporation trying to make lots of money across the entire world.

It's not like they're secretly and nefariously doing the CCP's bidding, which seems to be the veiled suggestion people keep making.

Seriously, every time someone brings up that Zoom is "really" a Chinese company, it comes across as borderline racism or conspiracy-mongering or both. And while I'd usually never comment on someone using a throwaway account, in this case when you're pushing these kinds of shady "stronger than the more-commonly-discussed" insituations, I think using a throwaway here is representative of exactly the kind of astroturfing that spreads malicious rumors without evidence.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#327

Post by alasdair_ »

gonehome wrote: post #52
modeless wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US companies may enforce US law but they're not hiding the fact that they're US companies. Zoom claimed not to be a Chinese company while enforcing Chinese law for US users.

Yeah, but this is the mistake they’re acknowledging with a promise to build out the system to only suppress the mainland China citizens specifically. My point is that this is not acceptable either.

>Yeah, but this is the mistake they’re acknowledging

Out of interest, did they fix their "mistake" and reinstate the accounts?

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#328

Post by thedudeabides5 »

alasdair_ wrote: post #327
gonehome wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but this is the mistake they’re acknowledging with a promise to build out the system to only suppress the mainland China citizens specifically. My point is that this is not acceptable either.

>Yeah, but this is the mistake they’re acknowledging Out of interest, did they fix their "mistake" and reinstate the accounts?

Great question. Will show where they land.

Still waiting to see if China will show NBA games while Daryl Morey remains unfired.

https://qz.com/1730643/china-asked-nba-to-fire-daryl-morey-f...

How long is the west going to pretend it doesn’t see where this pattern of bullying ends...

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#329

Post by a13n »

This seems like capitalism at work.

- Zoom wants to build as big of a business as possible.

- Therefore, Zoom wants to retain access to the Chinese market.

- Therefore, Zoom must work with the Chinese government, to avoid getting banned.

Is this "legal"? Probably, yes.

Is this "required by law"? Probably not, no.

Is this "right"? Depends who you ask, but probably not.

I feel like this summarizes one of the core issues with capitalism. Companies make immoral decisions because they can and it makes them more money.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#330

Post by pphysch »

biscottigelato wrote: post #319
ThrowawayBandit wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Not 'whataboutism', but just to generalise on this: The US do this all the time. I believe that in US law the US criminal law has universal jurisdiction, and they also use the fact that they are such a large and important market that companies will have a presence and ass…

I think whether said law came about from a system with separations of power and a democratic process makes a big difference in palatability.

Opaque authoritarian oligarchy vs. Transparent authoritarian oligarchy, yadda yadda
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