The American Press Is Destroying Itself • Hacker News Board

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#81

Post by aPALKbaq » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

I think the problem is deeper than just the press. These identity flame wars are sponsored by almost all big (non-news) corporations.

The reason is clear. While there is distraction, the real issues are unaddressed and they can keep putting their hands in your pocket when you aren't looking.

Also, excessive pseudo-socialism is a great tool to drive down wages and have the whole world compete against each other. Locust capitalism.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#82

Post by remote_phone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

This is the most important story in the last 4 years. The press has gone wild. They think they have a moral duty to bring down Trump instead of reporting the news. Because of this they distort headlines and flat out lie in many instances.

I no longer trust the media. I hate Trump as well, but you don’t do it through lies and distortion. You do it by presenting the truth. Reporters have crossed the line in the last several years and it shows. They are the worst propaganda machine in decades since the 80s and it truly is destroying itself, like Taibbi says.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#83

Post by blickentwapft » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

I’m getting to the point of just switching off.

Whatever your opinion, there will be many others who deeply and vehemently disagree with you and do so with passionate, fiery, certain-to-be-correct righteous indignation.

Carry your true opinions in your head and share them with no one.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#84

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:56 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #78

humanrebar wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to argue that a view is universally repugnant when it is espoused by an elected official and there is at least a significant minority of voters polling in support of the view. Given those criteria, we should argue that outright racist or sexist views are both unacceptable and not universally repugnant. I'm still supportive of editors who refuse to publish in those cases. So I'm just quibbling with th…

I wonder how much division in the country plays into this. I keep hearing references to there being at least two countries within the US. Is this maybe the outcome of using the sphere model from the Vox article higher up and applying it only within the "blue country"?

It's unlikely. As the article describes, many of the views considered unacceptable are popular even among Democrats.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#85

Post by remote_phone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #75

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think Klein is failing to engage with the core issue, that many of the positions now outside the bounds of acceptable discourse in newspapers are held by a majority of Americans and considered reasonable by a supermajority. If newspapers systematically refuse to represent views that most people hold, how can we trust their objectivity?

The news is not objective. There is no such thing as a “view from nowhere.” Editors make decisions daily about what even is news, and that is a subjective process.

The opinion pages are not objective. The news should be objective. If they aren’t objective then they should be clear about this otherwise people believe it as objective. That’s the whole point of news.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#86

Post by remote_phone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #61

MattGaiser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New Yorker article: https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th...

Is it wrong though? I've been reading HN for years and a lot of that New Yorker article rings true to me. There are some exaggerations, and I didn't read all of it because it's too damn long, but from what I see it's mostly accurate.

“I didn’t read all of it because it’s too damn long” is precisely the problem with our country today.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#87

Post by bryanlarsen » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 3:00 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #65

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

> But as a group that needs to survive, it's a working strategy. It's not working though. A lot of people canceled their NY Times subscriptions after the "Send in the troops" op-ed. Massively pissing off your customer base like that is not a winning move.

The newsroom revolted against the editor that published the "Send in the troops" article and got him fired. So for this anecdote it was the right strategy, it just didn't happen soon enough.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#88

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 3:00 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #78

humanrebar wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to argue that a view is universally repugnant when it is espoused by an elected official and there is at least a significant minority of voters polling in support of the view. Given those criteria, we should argue that outright racist or sexist views are both unacceptable and not universally repugnant. I'm still supportive of editors who refuse to publish in those cases. So I'm just quibbling with th…

I wonder how much division in the country plays into this. I keep hearing references to there being at least two countries within the US. Is this maybe the outcome of using the sphere model from the Vox article higher up and applying it only within the "blue country"?

[deleted]

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#89

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #76

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think Klein is failing to engage with the core issue, that many of the positions now outside the bounds of acceptable discourse in newspapers are held by a majority of Americans and considered reasonable by a supermajority. If newspapers systematically refuse to represent views that most people hold, how can we trust their objectivity?

Most of white American would’ve supported siccing the police and military on the civil rights movement in the 60s. That doesn’t mean that newspapers should’ve advocated they do so. The same holds true here. Ethics are not equivalent to populism.

[deleted]

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#90

Post by hcayless » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #63

I agree with some of this, but I just personally can't bring myself to care about the firings of the editors responsible for "Send in the troops" and "Buildings matter, too". A lot of my friends unsubscribed from the NY Times for publishing Tom Cotton's pro-fascism op-ed. The NY Times had to respond to this. They are a business and their income matters. It's not so much an issue of freedom of thought in the newsroom,…

I’m interested that this is getting downvoted. It seems perfectly fair comment to me. Newspapers can not afford to massively alienate their readership, and both of these cases clearly did just that. That calls into question the editors’ fitness for their jobs.