On Redis master-slave terminology (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#41

Post by loeg » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #34

oddevan wrote: post #7

The problem I’m starting to see is that the continued use of phrases like this (master/slave, blacklist/whitelist) can be a constant reminder to some that they “don’t belong here.” Obviously, in this context, they aren’t meant to be racist; but they are a reminder that racism exists. The end result is that it makes more people feel unwanted and ultimately leave tech.

Yikes. "Blacklist" has nothing to do with skin colour. In a different context, "being in the black" is a positive situation and contrasted with "being in the red". We start down that path and we'll end up banning "Paint it black" as a racist song.

A blacklist may not have anything to do with skin color, but being on a blacklist usually has negative connotations, not positive.

The related term is "whitelist," not "redlist." So I can understand why people might believe the pair has racial overtones.

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#43

Post by x3haloed » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

The project maintainer absolutely has the right to choose not to remove offensive language. Although, I find his position to be unnecessarily defensive. What is he really fighting for? The language is outdated and stems from a practice that is universally shunned. There is work involved in changing the language yet there is no harm in it. People absolutely have the right to be offended. Feeling offended is just that - a feeling. If we don’t have a right to experience feelings, then what do we have a right to? And the right to express our feelings with our speech and writing is known as “freedom of speech”, which is not a universal right in the world, but it’s a popular one. While it’s impossible to prevent offending everyone all the time, again, it’s outdated language referring to a shunned practice. This is more than a handful of individuals expressing offended feelings based on esoteric personal perspectives. Changing the language would be more welcoming towards people who still deal with the fallout of such a shunned practice. Again, doing so is not a requirement of any kind, and I’m not claiming racism. I’m just claiming a failure to understand, respect, and welcome people who live in a world still mired in the effects of a devastating practice. I would change the language.

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#44

Post by messe » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #33

Here we go again. But seriously, what's wrong with using "primary" and "replica" in a database context? They're generally clearer terms anyway. Obviously we'll be stuck talking about "master" and "slave" IDE connectors and the like, but other than that it seems to be falling out of use pretty much everywhere.

Also on the topic of Whitelist/Blacklist, I thought it was stupid to go about renaming, but then I saw the alternative was Allowlist/Blocklist, which IMO is much clearer (doubly so for non-native speakers).

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#45

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

ianwalter wrote: post #39

It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it's offensive. It's about how others think and feel about it. Are people really so self-centered that they can't understand that? And the slippery slope argument doesn't hold water because it's very obvious when a good number of people have a problem with it vs one or two people who are trying to be provocative. People are reasonable and if they are telling you something bothers…

[deleted]

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#46

Post by luckylion » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

ianwalter wrote: post #39

It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it's offensive. It's about how others think and feel about it. Are people really so self-centered that they can't understand that? And the slippery slope argument doesn't hold water because it's very obvious when a good number of people have a problem with it vs one or two people who are trying to be provocative. People are reasonable and if they are telling you something bothers…

> It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it's offensive. It's about how others think and feel about it.

The name ianwalter offends me, please change it.

> And the slippery slope argument doesn't hold water because it's very obvious when a good number of people have a problem with it vs one or two people who are trying to be provocative.

How many people do I need for you to change your name because it offends us? Or is it more that I need people you generally agree with for you to consider it an actual issue?

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#47

Post by Muromec » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

Could I take a moment to be offended by the mere existence of the word “slave” and it being used in historical discussion about forced labor and treating people as property, on behalf of all slavic people?

It’s ridiculous that Americans appropriate the name of my people to deal with the problems of their own society.

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#48

Post by waheoo » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

IceDane wrote: post #18

Note that this is from 2018. I personally totally agree with the author. Anyone who chooses to be offended by words used in a totally different context is doing exactly that - choosing to be offended. If we keep going down this path of endless meaningless virtue signalling, where will we stop? Is the term "black hole" racist too? What about blackout? Etc, etc. No one really cares about these terms and it they do thei…

Where do you think the master slave name comes from?

Masters give the orders. Slaves follow the master. Slaves get all the heavy work. Slaves take the beating.

Its tone deaf to ignore this as why it might be offensive to some of your coworkers.

And in any case, the name is vague at best anyway.

Write db, read db, primary, replica, leader, follower, marshal, worker.

All better, more descriptive names for various master/slave relationships.

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#49

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

mk1982 wrote: post #9

In the meantime, the Slave terminology is on its way out in Redis too. Here are a few commits: https://github.com/antirez/redis/search?q=%22slave+removal%2... Here's the issue where some of the discussion happened: https://github.com/antirez/redis/issues/5335

"Personally I do not consider the effort worthwhile, but this is my personal opinion. [...] I don't want, as a result of my ideas, to create problems to the Redis community."

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#50

Post by axaxs » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #37

IceDane wrote: post #18

Note that this is from 2018. I personally totally agree with the author. Anyone who chooses to be offended by words used in a totally different context is doing exactly that - choosing to be offended. If we keep going down this path of endless meaningless virtue signalling, where will we stop? Is the term "black hole" racist too? What about blackout? Etc, etc. No one really cares about these terms and it they do thei…

> Is the term "black hole" racist too? That has been objected to [1][2][3]. A white county commissioner described a slow office as a black hole for paperwork, a black county commissioner said that was racist and it should be called a white hole, and a black judge asked the first commissioner to apologize for his racist remark. Also, "angel food cake" and "devil's food cake" were also declared racist, apparently, in t…

LOL. That was a wild ride, thanks for sharing.