Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 397 posts

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#261

Post by iso947 »

jrockway wrote: post #232
katbyte wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As outraged as I have been by America’s actions towards their protestors it’s honestly a lot different then HK let along tiananmen square (which my iPhone refuses to recognize.. well that’s fucked up yet expected I guess, and least Taiwan and 🇹🇼 Are there) Trump is doing trump but a lot of politicians and others have spoken out and marched - would that happen in China?

My iPhone doesn't attempt to censor tiananmen square. Typing "tian" into the home screen search bar yields "tiananmen square", "tiana", "tiananmen square massacre", and "tiana musarra".

Indeed, it’s a major tourism draw in Beijing, why would it be censored?

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#262

Post by Aunche »

komali2 wrote: post #99
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re on shaky ground there. The US does imprison more of its citizens on a per capita basis than any other comparable nation. The US isn’t the moral beacon it was billed to be. I’ll stop there.

And the USA did allow violence against democratic organizers last week. But those same organizers weren't shipped to Guantanamo for indefinite periods of time for "reeducation." The USA suffers from some of what it accuses the PRC - it is still not the PRC.

Nobody is going to disagree that the US treats its citizens better, but we're talking about country's foreign influence here. China doesn't cripple the economy or bomb other countries they disagree with.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#263

Post by reaperducer »

chii wrote: post #200
jobigoud wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument that if they don't do it another one will do it is constantly used to justify unethical things. It just shows that money is more important than compromising one's values.

I'm gonna play the devils advocate, and say that money _is_ more important than morals. And it's because americans have a lot of money (collectively) that they can enjoy having high morals. So i don't disagree that zoom is lacking in morals, but i also have to agree with what they did - for it is the only course of action that leads to them "winning" economically.

it's because americans have a lot of money (collectively) that they can enjoy having high morals

History disagrees with you. America was founded by people with high morals and no money.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#265

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

Aunche wrote: post #234
monocasa wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, as absolutely reprehensible Apple's similar actions are, Zoom canceled _a US based account_ because of a Chinese request. It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Like, I think companies should take a stand and both aren't acceptable, but Zoom takes new, additional steps here.

> and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders What China does is small potatoes compared to the US. The US fined a French bank $9 billion for violating US sanctions.

it is small potatoes but it's also whataboutism. the article and discussion isn't about the US. There is plenty of room to judge individual cases on their own merit. Just because this is now in the news doesn't mean we should stop discussing it or feel obligated to bring up every bad thing the US does while criticizing China/others.

I personally don't think the US is worse but I think US allies are too weak to put pressure on the US to behave in a civilized and decent way. How would the arm-chair bureaucrats in Brussels even try to mitigate this: https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/international...

... we clearly need sanctions against the US but that will upset a lot of Europeans who benefit from an export economy (especially Germany) or the Poles who are ever so fearful against "Russian Agression". The problem really is that no political solutions that we could come up with is going to solve this since US will always be the stronger one for a long time. ... sanctions are a lunatic's dream which will never materialize.

Americans need to step up their own game to sort out their shit politics internally first. No point talking with them about human rights when they're treating their own poor and colored population like that (or talk to them about climate change while they're poisoning the environment in their own country e.g. Flint or many other examples). Problem isn't bad foreign policy but too many truly evil people are in power their, and the general population seems to have abandoned all contact to reality, reason and common sense.

The current riots in the US gives me hope knowing that not everyone is a coward. (though comparing the now to the US of the 60/70ies it is a nation of cowards). While the riots are for a "just" cause (literally reforming the police) they won't solve the US attitude toward other countries ... They still cheer for characters like Hillary Clinton, Obama, Biden, Bush and Trump. And their ignorance against "muslims", or calling poor nations "shithole countries", (again just look how they treat their own poor/homeless).

There is no way that either republicans or democrats will solve this anytime soon. The current system (power structures) needs to burn down first (figuratively) before it can be rebuilt.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#268

Post by zo1 »

jatone wrote: post #237
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #37

Human rights are more important than corporate rights. But where does that leave us in the situation, whereas others have said Apple cuts off apps like the one in Hong Kong, and they use the excuse of local laws. Apple and zoom both need to stop enforcing Chinese law, or stop seeing the benefits of being an American company. The ability to complain about your government, to point out injustice, it's a human right, no…

america should be cutting ties with china and encouraging our allies to do the same. enough of this shit. china is a bad actor and should be treated as such on the world stage (same with russia). there is 0 reason to do business with china beyond cheap labor and there are other options for labor.

The big downside to going too-far down that road too-quickly is that it might put China in a corner financially. I don't think anyone wants it to get to that point because isolating them quickly will definitely escalate tensions and maybe even war.

Rather: Determined and solid pressure should be put on any expansionist and growth policies that China may have. Reduce and starve them of critical imports, slowly make their businesses un-competitive with tariffs and increasing regulatory requirements for companies that want to do business with China.

Of course, the response to those sorts of suggestions is that they'll buy ill-will from the Chinese people and grown division even further. Agreed, but at this point, that's guaranteed and no matter what we do it'll grow. E.g. Leave it alone and China's authoritarian and technocratic social policies will increase Chinese peoples' division from the West if not downright hatred. But if you intervene, then you're being unfair to the Chinese people that want access to the West in various forms.

What is constant is that China is big threat to global stability and we should be reducing their power so that the eventual conflict is lessened. I don't think we can hope for a "the Chinese people love the world and want peace enough to go against their government" scenario. We're way passed that I would argue. I'm sure a lot if not almost all of the German people wanted peace and weren't anti-semitic, but that didn't stop an authoritarian government from steam-rolling their dissent and turning it into blind compliance. And that was without any large-scale technocratic indoctrination and control mechanisms, just plain propaganda.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#269

Post by ridewinter »

bad_user wrote: post #194
HALtheWise wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…

US copyright is enforceable overseas due to trade agreements. As a US citizen do you think you can infringe EU's copyright law? It is true that US's culture has spilled into the terms of use of some of these services. I still remember the "napalm girl" being censored on Facebook for public display of nudity. However these aren't examples of individuals being targeted by the US government. Also just because there are…

Beautiful use of strong language.
Post reply on HN