Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#811

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:26 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #218

libria wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison kinda worries me. Occupy had some hygiene issues and did not have a coronavirus to worry about.

It seems much less densely populated than the various Occupy camps ever were. Also their relationship to the cops seems 100x less adversarial given SPD has willingly abandoned the area.

the people involved in this have a very adversarial relationship with SPD, which is likely a big part of the reason SPD abandoned the area.

but the fundamental nature of these people are live and let live. So i'm not surprised at all that the area is doing fine and is perfectly safe.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#812

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:29 PM UTC

renegading wrote: post #725

arctangos wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s awfully hard to tell whether this is parody or not, but yes, media are “allowed” in. In fact, far as I can see on the various vids, anyone can just walk in

This guy certainly isn't welcome. https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1271224115576180737

probably they claim hes a white supremacist. i suspect he is probably know by the locals as being associated with proud boys or some shit.

notice how they are peacefully escorting him from the area? its fine.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#813

Post by wildmusings » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

idownvoted wrote: post #385

gabesk wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also about that far away and walked through there last night. It felt more like a summer street fair festival. I also took a few pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/UN8RpwWS5TYAY5Nn7

I know those "summer festivals" from Europe. Especially the "free spech"-debates and their "diversity" of opinion. I just imagine how it must feel living there for years and not being 100%-OK with your neighbourhood becoming a "summer street fair".

This is going to come to either an immediate or tragic end when someone inside this zone needs the police to come save them. Either the police will tear down the fences and fight whoever they must to rescue this person, or the mayor will order them to stand down and an American is left to fend for himself so that a politician's agenda can be advanced.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#814

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:49 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #447

deathgrips wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a gun and my right to defend myself is a practical, factual statement. American police have no duty to protect you and are free from legal punishment if they choose to idly wait while you are assaulted and raped.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia...

You missed the point. You can assert your rights all the livelong day, but without a criminal justice apparatus all you have are a gun and some fine words. Given the relatively high mortality among armed gang members in America's underpoliced inner cities, your gun isn't the reason you and yours enjoy relatively low mortality--the difference is either one of policing or fine words, and I'm pretty sure it's not the la…

police are not the reason we have safety.

a police force doesn't prevent you from being attacked, they only dispense justice after the fact and only sometimes.

welfare, courts and legal systems have a far larger impact than police as a means to prevent violence by having a peaceful way to resolve issues between individuals and ensuring basic needs are met. they also happen to be cheaper.

most violence happens at the edge of society where people cannot avail themselves of the court system. (drugs/prostitution)

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#815

Post by chrisweekly » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:54 PM UTC

pera wrote: post #203

chrisweekly wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

got a URL that doesn't require an account?

Nop sorry, but I'm surprised that Flickr asks you for one! I wonder if it's some sort of geographical restriction.

What actually happened is it opened in the Flickr iOS app, to which I hadn't logged in. (Poor UX, giving new visitors a much better experience than logged-out users w the mobile app installed.)

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#816

Post by chrisweekly » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

xwowsersx wrote: post #198

chrisweekly wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

got a URL that doesn't require an account?

this url (maybe they updated it) does not require an account

You're right. What actually happened is it opened in the Flickr iOS app, to which I hadn't logged in. (Poor UX, giving new visitors a much better experience than logged-out users w the mobile app installed.)

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#817

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

kempbellt wrote: post #204

staplers wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eventually the idiots/assholes will become a problem that needs to be dealt with Like the police force?

When people start policing the police force, don't they become....the police (by definition, not legality)? And therefore susceptible to becoming just like the "idiots/assholes" they were empowered to deal with. Certainly an interesting recursion problem.

no, because they don't have authority to police civilians. there is no recursion here.

police force -> used to arrest dangerous criminals only

police wardens -> used to review, charge, change police policy, and arrest police officers who violate the law.

social officer -> used for all non-violent community enforcement. fines, ticketing, homelessness, mental health issues, etc. have no power to arrest anyone.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#818

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #463

jessaustin wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent events cast doubt on your judgment of the government there. Unlike e.g. New York they have dealt somewhat effectively with the pandemic. Seattle was hit first yet seems to have brought the situation under control with fewer deaths than other American cities. At the very least, they didn't force covid-positive patients into old folks' homes.

Well in Seattle, the major outbreak was in Kirkland at that senior center. We know now even in NYC, the vast majority of fatalities happened in senior and assisted living centers. Over 70% of fatalities in Canada, Ohio and other places have been elderly care centers[0]. It's pretty clear this disease wasn't anywhere near as bad as everyone was predicting, and I expect the 100k US fatality number to drop once a year h…

what other singular event has killed 100k people in the US in less than 6 months outside of a couple wars?

not as bad as everyone was predicting...... are you fucking kidding me? and this number is after the major cities impacted literally fucking shut themselves down to help prevent the spread.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#819

Post by darkerside » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

krzyk wrote: post #652

darkerside wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are protests against the police, and the police don't like that? Simplest answer I can see

Use of force by police in those protests results in more protests. So the simplest answer is actually: protesters benefit from police using force. (because they'll get more protesters, more media coverage etc.)

People in large groups typically don't exhibit intelligent coordinated behavior taking advantage of second order effects without training and coordination. Soldiers in battle require training to maintain formation in violent circumstances even though that's in their advantage as a group. It sounds like you may have a blind spot based on a preconceived notion here.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#820

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:04 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #523

fatbird wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

220 reapplied; 155 were hired. Effectively, they fired 65 officers, or 25% of the force, with the stroke of a pen, which is a hell of a bit of housecleaning. Camden made all members apply for jobs as if coming from another police department, but they had the files of the old department and could look directly at an applicant's job history and see how many complaints of excessive force were present, etc. They purged t…

I’m not claiming what they did wasn’t successful- far from it. I’m pointing out what actually happened because it stands in stark contrast to how the case of the Camden Police Department usually gets cited. I doubt “hire more police, add constant surveillance” is on any of the lists of demands from activists.

depends on how those people are used.

'hiring more police' well that can be argued as exactly what the activists want. if you define police as individuals who help the community with their issues without violence. making sure homeless people get food/shelter, mental health issues are resolved non violently etc.

I'd be all for hiring more of those 'police'.

As for surveillance, depends on the kind. I'd be all for surveillance used for detecting gunshots throughout a region. less okay for audio/video surveillance on every street corner.