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Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

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Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#41

Post by murukesh_s »

bprieto wrote: post #39

1.choose jobs for their learning potential, not their earning potential for the first years. This will pay off later. 2.be willing to change jobs if you don't have a clear chance of promotion inside. 3.be a likable person. Have a coffee with your colleagues, make small chat with your boss, ask about their lives, remember their families' names... In office politics it doesn't matter how good you are as much as how muc…

this is golden. except may be 2. which contradicts with 1. You probably don't need promotion in the initial years unless you are looking for management career, which would be good if you end up like Sundar Pichai but bad if you just become a redundant replaceable resource especially in bad times like this.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#42

Post by Broken_Hippo »

mattlondon wrote: post #32

Beat advice I can give you is to be endlessly positive and do whatever they ask you to do as well as you possibly can even if it is not what you want. If on your first day they give you a mop and a bucket and direct you to the toilets, then be damned sure you make those toilets the cleanest they've seen. Silly example I agree (they won't ask you to clean the bathrooms... probably), but demonstrating a strong work eth…

If on your first day they give you a mop and a bucket and direct you to the toilets, then be damned sure you make those toilets the cleanest they've seen.

Unfortunately, this can easily backfire. Make sure it is clean, sure, but at some point you are going to take time cleaning and it won't be appreciated at best. At worse, you are going to be told it took you to long to do the work. This is coming from someone who, at a foodservice job, had someone teach me how to mop. Their standards - for mopping anyway - were quite a bit lower than the standards I grew up with at home. It hasn't just been that establishment, either: Everywhere has some of this.

I'd much rather see someone be told, "Do well, but there is no need to be perfect. Be efficient where you can". This goes so much further and besides, most folks expect the new person to do a few things that are a bit off.

Not being fussy about the work you do, though: Solid advice. I've generally tried to do something other people dislike, if possible.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#43

Post by hakanderyal »

Some random thoughts:

1)

Depending on where you live, there will be hundreds/thousands of new CS graduates every year, but a smaller number of available jobs for juniors.

So, you need to differentiate yourself from the rest.

Starting from there, there are two paths you can follow to increase your chances of finding a good job (not mutually exclusive):

- Do what everyone does, but better.

- Do different things then everyone

2)

First principles thinking.

It has been an invaluable thinking method for me to improve myself, in all areas of life.

Some random links:

https://jamesclear.com/first-principles

https://www.theengineeringmanager.com/growth/first-principle...

Some examples on how you can apply it to software development:

- You will be using various languages/frameworks/libraries when creating software, with various level of abstractions. At the beginning, you won't have the necessary experience to understand how everything works underneath. Whenever you find time, try to dig through the abstractions to discover why they were built the way they built, how they work together. This understanding will make you a better engineer.

- When working with non-technical clients/project shareholders, what they say they want and what they really want will usually be different. Often, you will have to dig through their requests to find out how you should continue.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#44

Post by jsilence »

fsloth wrote: post #23
khazhoux wrote: post #14

My pro-tip for when you land your first job: You'll be tempted your first week to " clean up " the code you find there. Don't.

This in an excellent advice. In real world the value of a codebase is not in it's aesthetics. It's how and what sort of added value it bring's to it's users. And how much value your employer can capture from it (i.e. it's price). The question you should ask is not "how to make this more beautiful" but "how to bring in more value to the customer". Don't go on a refactoring crusade alone. If you want to become a valued…

If testing is a thing in that company you can contribute by writing more tests in order to understand the existing codebase.

This will give you a good position to literally question the legacy code without being perceived as smartasserish.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#46

Post by closeparen »

fsloth wrote: post #23
khazhoux wrote: post #14

My pro-tip for when you land your first job: You'll be tempted your first week to " clean up " the code you find there. Don't.

This in an excellent advice. In real world the value of a codebase is not in it's aesthetics. It's how and what sort of added value it bring's to it's users. And how much value your employer can capture from it (i.e. it's price). The question you should ask is not "how to make this more beautiful" but "how to bring in more value to the customer". Don't go on a refactoring crusade alone. If you want to become a valued…

The principle here is intellectual humility. Keep Chesterton's fence in mind. Take some time to listen and learn why things are they way they are before you disturb them. Consider your own expertise and its limitations. Assume competence good faith on the part of the original authors. Be willing to change your mind about that, but slowly.

That said, intuition and sensibility are your most important professional assets; you definitely want to nurture and listen to them. The feeling that code is "ugly" is often a signal that it hides surprising behaviors (bugs) or that changes involve more effort and risk than they should. Any software org you want to be part of does care about its ability to continue shipping working software. Protecting that capability is very much part of your job. Don't check in sloppy work. But let senior people take the heat on correcting others' sloppy work, at least until you learn what the attitudes about it are like.

Similarly, don't go having opinions about customer value or business strategy until you have a relationship with the product manager and an understanding of the context, intentions, and roadmap. When you do, they should be weakly held and gently expressed. Software engineering is your domain; there will be times when you know something that others don't and you have a duty to be firm about it. This will never be the case for business.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#47

Post by balazspapp »

In general: listen to everyone than follow your way (C) nav.al

In practice: being research assistant is a good start. Do it as long as you can afford - I mean no family, no obligations whatsoever. (3-8 years)

Find a small company - this will teach you applying theory in practice. (3-8 years)

After that you will have the potential to start up your business. (3-8 years)

If you really enjoy, continue what you are doing. If not -but only if you have tried all above-, look for employment in a big company. No matter if it is tech, automotive, beverages or anything else. It will provide stable living for the remaining time.

If you've done everything fine up to this point you can't be sorry missing anything in your profession.

During the whole time listen to the sounds! :) Contemplate, analyze what fits you most? Which topics you are interested most? What you enjoy most? What are you the best in?

Share your thoughts with the younger.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#48

Post by adingus »

vbsteven wrote: post #26
adingus wrote: post #6

When you are new, say yes to everything. Stay busy, if you have nothing to do, ask for something. You want to take the load off your team members where you can to contribute & build some clout/respect. Find the most knowledgeable team member and shadow them. Real jobs are just college group projects that never end.

While saying yes to everything is an interesting way to learn new things. Keep in mind that saying no is also a skill to be learned. As a person currently struggling with always-say-yes related burnout symptoms I cannot stress enough how important it is to manage your workload to keep yourself sane. Balance is key

This is true. I should have stressed the "while you're new" part and added "say yes but communicate when you're overloaded". After a while you'll start to see the good projects from bad ones and can stategically keep your mouth shut when someone pitches them.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#49

Post by isatty »

adingus wrote: post #6

When you are new, say yes to everything. Stay busy, if you have nothing to do, ask for something. You want to take the load off your team members where you can to contribute & build some clout/respect. Find the most knowledgeable team member and shadow them. Real jobs are just college group projects that never end.

> When you are new, say yes to everything.

Maybe, but not if you already know what is being asked of you is boring because you have tried it before and it did not work. Also, don't be afraid of sharing experiences that you may have had - if a particular library/algorithm is sub-optimal and you know it, speak out.

Re: Ask HN: Tips for students before starting their first job

#50

Post by isatty »

If you're joining a company that does not have an established, tried and tested onboarding programme you may find documentation missing (whether it be technical or process) and pitfalls you fall into as a beginner. It may help to write it down in a public forum or help fix the stale documents which'll help other new joiners.
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