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Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

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Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#81
post #11

I hate to say it but this SSD story has been plastered all over the news by the PR machine, mainly because the new consoles have no other inovations whatsoever.... No, it is not going to usher a new area of gaming, just make game have less 'loading' screens, and perhaps larger open worlds.... but it is no near the innovation and changes we experiences in the 90s and early 2000's.... Let me say in a more popular langu…

Mark Cerny explains it very well why they don't target revolutionary changes anymore in his presentation about PS5 technology.

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#82

> The PS5's SSD can supply data at 5.5 GB/s. The RAM runs at 448 GB/s, 81 times faster . https://www.anandtech.com/show/15848/storage-matters-xbox-ps... SSD is compressed (by "Kraken"), giving 8-9GB/s typical. You could compress RAM too, but not worth the latency penalty.

Decompressing something to use during rendering of the same frame probably also isn't worth the latency penalty. Compression is fine for streaming data, but not so much for low-latency seeking around within data.

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#83
post #73

My understanding is that what makes these new SSDs so special is the embedded decompression hardware. That sounds great... but I can't help but think back a couple generations to the PS3 and its cell architecture. Yeah, it was more efficient than x86, but few developers really managed to capitalize on it until the end of that generation. By that point, the PS3 was lagging far behind the 360 is US sales and had long s…

For starters, the compression hardware isn't part of the SSD.

But more importantly, transparent decompression has been implemented many times on many systems; it's not a pipe dream. Developers don't have to do much of anything special to use the decompression hardware. They just have to use the platform's standard APIs for reading data from disk, and the OS or standard library takes care of routing it through the hardware offloads. From the application programmer's perspective, the decompression just shifts the performance characteristics of the storage a bit—higher latency, higher throughput, stronger preference for certain block sizes.

The bigger question is whether developers will be able to make good use of high bandwidth storage, regardless of how that storage is provided. Replacing everything in RAM on a ~2 second timescale is pretty wild. Lots of game engines have systems to coordinate loading assets on the fly, and the scalability limits of those existing solutions are going to be tested.

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#84
post #11

I hate to say it but this SSD story has been plastered all over the news by the PR machine, mainly because the new consoles have no other inovations whatsoever.... No, it is not going to usher a new area of gaming, just make game have less 'loading' screens, and perhaps larger open worlds.... but it is no near the innovation and changes we experiences in the 90s and early 2000's.... Let me say in a more popular langu…

There is a really critical component of having an SSD, and knowing you'll have an SSD (as a game developer) which is easily missed (the article may cover this, but just to reiterate).

Lets say you only have 8gb of memory. Most importantly: You know you'll have 8gb (not more, not less). You build your game around having 8gb; textures are a specific size and quality, levels are designed around this, etc.

With a hard drive (or disk), games don't just store what is "on-screen" in memory; they have to store everything which could reasonably be expected to appear on-screen within the next, lets say, 10 seconds. This is because disks are slow; if the player violently flips the camera around, they can't wait 30 frames to page in the textures for that wall behind them; it has to be stored, even if the player isn't using it, and may never use it.

But, with SSDs, this changes entirely: new textures can be paged in within just a couple frames. Now, that paging can happen more on-demand.

So, wait: This means that 8gb of memory, which previously contained N% textures just used for what is being rendered, and M% textures which weren't being used, can now contain even more textures for what's just on-screen. Those textures can now be bigger! Higher detail. Bigger open worlds. The like.

Second point: Series X and PS5 do have ray tracing (not just ray casting, which you seem to suggest they don't have?) The Ratchet & Clank video we saw during the PS5 press conference seemed to showcase this, as it had multiple scenes showcasing reflections that didn't seem possible with just screen-space reflections. These consoles can absolutely, 100%, do super-1080p rendering at 60fps with ray tracing. Maybe not 4k60, we'll see, but 1440p60 w/ ray tracing is clearly attainable, at launch.

Third point, and this is critical, possibly the most critical: These consoles are all built with the same underlying technology that powered the previous generation; they just turned the dial to 12. This has, in the history of Playstation at least, never happened before. PS2 was very different from PS1. PS3 was a clusterfuck of technology that took developers years to get their heads around. But PS4 to PS5? Same platform tech. Developers know these platforms; the ramp up will be startlingly quick, and they'll be able to re-use and improve many of the very powerful game engines already there on PS4, like Decima, to make use of the new tech instead of starting closer to scratch like they did with PS4, PS3, and PS2.

I really don't think you could be more wrong than your assertion that this generation isn't going to be big. I'll go one-further: The media is underhyping the impact these technological advancements are going to have, and this generation will be the biggest single-generation leap in technical performance since the Nintendo 64. Only one AAA cutting edge title that I'm aware of was capable of consistently hitting 4K60 on a previous generation console (Gears 5 on X1X), and really, most games looked more like Control or Fallen Order (barely hitting 1080p30, no impressive technical achievements on consoles). We're now entering an era where practically every game will be 4K60, with substantially increased graphical fidelity, with ray tracing, with 3D audio, and it wasn't enabled with some crazy technology like IBM Cell; its the same shit that everyone already knows.

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#85
> Game programmers cannot take full advantage of NVMe SSD performance without making their games unplayably slow on hard drives.

Well, yet. As history shows, many big game shops care very little whether their game is unplayable on current systems and push for a more expensive setup instead. On the other hand, this is partly the reason I can now do ML at home doing things that were far out of my range a few years ago.

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#86

> The PS5's SSD can supply data at 5.5 GB/s. The RAM runs at 448 GB/s, 81 times faster . https://www.anandtech.com/show/15848/storage-matters-xbox-ps... SSD is compressed (by "Kraken"), giving 8-9GB/s typical. You could compress RAM too, but not worth the latency penalty.

Textures are kept compressed in ram

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#87
post #11

I hate to say it but this SSD story has been plastered all over the news by the PR machine, mainly because the new consoles have no other inovations whatsoever.... No, it is not going to usher a new area of gaming, just make game have less 'loading' screens, and perhaps larger open worlds.... but it is no near the innovation and changes we experiences in the 90s and early 2000's.... Let me say in a more popular langu…

you too retarded to understand why it is a giant plus

- increase developer iteration, no need to cook assets, you can feed them raw to the console, it'll be fast

- more evergy efficient, you waste less energy and therefore earn money

now go save microsoft, because they'll meet with industrial failure with the new xbox x series one x weird name

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#88
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That portal transition effect likely hides the load screen - it's still there, nearly half a second, it's just shorter. This is comparable to current load times with an SSD on PC!

The difference with PCs is that since the hardware is standard, developers can now create gameplay that depends on those capabilities. Until all (or most) PCs are equiped with high performance NVMe SSDs, those kind of features won't be possible other than on consoles. Also, the PS5's architecture is optimized end-to-end for faster loading times, it's more than just faster storage.

Most tests I've seen of real-time game asset loading between the various types of SSDs on PC are incredibly inconsistent - for most games it is hardly noticeable. I'd be excited if I was proven wrong but this really feels like the typical console hype ramp up to black friday that South Park portrays so well...

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#89
post #86

> The PS5's SSD can supply data at 5.5 GB/s. The RAM runs at 448 GB/s, 81 times faster . https://www.anandtech.com/show/15848/storage-matters-xbox-ps... SSD is compressed (by "Kraken"), giving 8-9GB/s typical. You could compress RAM too, but not worth the latency penalty.

Textures are kept compressed in ram

Yes, but they have special formats (ETC, PVRTC, ASTC etc.) so GPU can use them directly, and the compression is lossy. e.g. PNG would not work in this situation because GPU cannot decode PNG textures fast enough.

Re: Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher in a New Era of Gaming

#90
Every generation has seen the various console makers hyping some magic technical aspect of their machines. We had Blast Processing, Mode 7, polygons, MORE polygons, the Emotion Engine, RAMBUS, hyper futuristic Cell technology, and none of it solves the central problem for game designers - how to make a FUN game.

I’d give up this ultra fast SSD in a heartbeat if it meant there wouldn’t be any pay to win or DLC to buy for a half completed but shipped anyway game.

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