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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#791

Post by austhrow743 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #448
dgellow wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect that someone with an assault weapon and what looks like a bullet proof vest is scary for quite a lot of people. And that's notable in the sense that is goes against the idea of "a peaceful event similar to a music festival" (paraphrasing).

But you see stuff like that at music festivals as well, in the form of police. So I'm asking why this is scary or notable but that is not.

I've never seen police wearing armour with rifles at a music festival.

Your experience of music festivals and heavily armed people going hand in hand is not universal.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#792

Post by undersuit »

twirlip wrote: post #724
undersuit wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend in Seattle told me they put up a wall, armed thugs are shaking down businesses inside and ICE agents were controlling admission. I'm glad to know it's just a mural.

Has your friend gone to witness it themselves? I had gone to the local protest in our city. My next door neighbor, unaware that I had marched, told me that it was a violent mob. She didn't believe me when I contradicted her until I showed her video footage I took with my phone. She didn't have a good answer when I questioned who told her it was violent; I'm assuming it's just wrong information passed along in social…

Actually no, I called him out about it but he's not that interested about going the 8 blocks East to check it out in person.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#793

Post by jpatt »

idownvoted wrote: post #385
gabesk wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also about that far away and walked through there last night. It felt more like a summer street fair festival. I also took a few pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/UN8RpwWS5TYAY5Nn7

I know those "summer festivals" from Europe. Especially the "free spech"-debates and their "diversity" of opinion. I just imagine how it must feel living there for years and not being 100%-OK with your neighbourhood becoming a "summer street fair".

This section of town is normally the busiest part of the Seattle nightlife. They didn't just turn some random residential block into Coachella.

It's right by where the Capitol Hill block party is run, legally and with the city's blessing, every year. That's a major corporate event with _significantly_ more powerful sound systems.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#794

Post by shpongled »

loeg wrote: post #640
latencyloser wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not automatic rifles, they're very likely all semi-automatic. Semi-automatic rifles can look the same as automatic rifles, visual appearance doesn't mean much. Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually vs ~$500 for a semi-automatic variant. Sorry if that seems pedantic, but the media uses the understandably ea…

> Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually Clarification: to acquire legally . It is not nearly that expensive black market.

Yeah, not that expensive to get illegally if you're fine with the ATF shooting your wife and dog.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#795

Post by shpongled »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #690
umvi wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless, full auto is misleadingly portrayed in media as being orders of magnitude more deadly than semi auto, hard to change that (for example[0]). Nevermind handguns kill more than all other gun types combined, it's the "military" style ones that politicians and media focus on because they look scary (again, also disregarding the fact that a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same de…

>a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same destructive power). I'd strongly argue against this point. Most hunting rifles have 5 round mags (legal limit for hunting in a lot of places). They won't accept 30 round mags. They're also chambered in more powerful calibers which have much more recoil. An active shooter with his dad's hunting rifle is much less dangerous than the same shooter wi…

Have you ever trained with a firearm? Magazine capacity is a useless metric, because you can change a magazine in seconds.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#796

Post by rosstex »

remarkEon wrote: post #334
Animats wrote: post #247

They need a political win on something in the next few days. Otherwise this thing fizzles out, is crushed, or turns into a joke like the 2016 bird sanctuary occupation. Some of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" apply. ⬤ "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." ⬤ "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." That's the problem with "defund the police". "We'd all love to see the plan", as…

>Camden NJ did do this. They fired their entire police department and started over. Except that's not really what happened. They fired the existing police force at the time but most were hired back (155 of the 220 that reapplied), and then they expanded to a complement of 401 officers (it was 370 before). Then they built a gigantic surveillance apparatus that tracks pretty much everything. So, more police, more surve…

If you're gonna cite Wikipedia, you need to add this:

>Thomson announced that officers would no longer be judged on how many tickets they wrote or arrests they made but on relationships they developed in the community and whether citizens felt safe enough to sit on their front steps or allow their children to ride their bikes in the street. Thomson told the New York Times in 2017 that "aggressive ticket writing" was a sign that officers weren't understanding the new department, saying "handing a $250 ticket to someone who is making $13,000 a year can be life altering." On new recruits' first day, they knock on doors in the neighborhood they're assigned to and introduce themselves.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#797

Post by dmode »

skissane wrote: post #766
jakelazaroff wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we tolerate the police for a few hundred years now - on occasion they cause violence that's predictable and can be influenced. The point of these protests is that the violence is not occasional. It is endemic , and attempts to stop it stretch back centuries . It has persisted across the country, under both progressive and conservative politicians, despite many, many attempts to eliminate it. If the viol…

A question – is the problem with police, or is the problem with US police specifically? Do we have the same problem with police in other countries? Canadian police? UK police? Police in EU countries? If the US police have this problem and other (wealthy democratic) countries don't – or even if comparable countries have the problem too, just not quite as bad as the US has it – what makes US police different? Racism an…

I don’t know why you are getting down voted. I think your comments are asking genuine questions

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#798

Post by 0x262d »

refurb wrote: post #684
0x262d wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China industrialized on the basis of incredibly terrible working conditions (ie high profitability via low wages) that have only recently been improving. And as they've improved, globalization has shifted manufacturing to other countries who have worse working conditions again. "Lifted out of poverty" sounds nice but tends to mostly mean that people who were formerly peasants have instead worked in sweatshops and hor…

"Lifted out of poverty" sounds nice but tends to mostly mean that people who were formerly peasants have instead worked in sweatshops and horrible factories for decades or centuries. Right, so lifted out of poverty. Just because you think their new job is a "horrible sweatshop", doesn't mean their lives haven't actually improved.

You're mistaken about the standard of living of peasants vs superexploited wage laborers, and doing that smug "the thing that worked super well for me must have worked for those guys no matter how bad off they seem" thing.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#799

Post by lucassen »

kortex wrote: post #788
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's MAD, right? Mutually Assured Destruction. Well, that is the logic of a species that has gone kookoo bonkers bannanas bongos mad and thinks that "let's all threaten each other with total anihilation" is "rational". Why is it so hard to agree to not destroy each other needlessly instead?

Game theory. The instant someone doesn't agree not to destroy, they have a massive upper hand.

this seems to be a common attitude in America. It’s game theory, but you should look more to the nash equilibrium than the prisoners dilemma. Unfortunately it must all start with trust, which seems like the fundamental scarcity in the US

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#800

Post by dmix »

toofy wrote: post #787
dmix wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I thought you were referring to the original tweet which has the source video in the tweet. So that separate claim of business extortion is what was retracted by SPD?

It was. The Seattle Times [1]: This is a rather long mega thread kind of post, but if you do a ‘Find’ for the headline, it’ll take you there: Headline to search: Police walk back report that Capitol Hill protesters extorted businesses For the too lazy to click, here are some quotes: > That has not happened affirmatively,” Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best in a news conference Thursday afternoon, adding that the police…

That's good to hear.

The reports of BLM leader avoiding answering any public questions about where funds are going [1] was already concerning. Having stories on top of it that some of these funds may also be coerced from non-protestors would be a bad look and I'm happy that isn't the case so far (assuming business owners aren't just staying quiet as the physical threats of speaking out still exists as long as the occupation continues).

I really hope focus goes back on positive police reform and avoids these internal distractions like the merits of a burning-man style street parties and silly attempts at building temporary urban gardens or bringing in dairy cows which take real care/time/investment vs focusing on tangible action and strong pressure towards police reform.

Unlike occupy this (the wider movement, not so much CHAZ) has the potential to result in real wins for once and already has a few. This deserves far more support from the supposedly libertarian-leaning right who despise many of these same police policies.

The vegan hippie utopia stuffs seems to be mostly a distraction from that and easy fodder for dismissal by the mainstream media.

[1] from BLM AMA on Reddit: https://preview.redd.it/3ebhf4rrei451.jpg?width=750&auto=web...

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