Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#601

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:14 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #544

downerending wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this among the young men in my extended family and friends. One guy is model cute, and goes out on Tinder "dates" whenever he wants (new girl weekly, at least). He had a live-in girlfriend, but with an open relationship. And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. Even if you can't marry a hottie, if you can have sex with one a few times, that still sounds like fun. The other guys,…

> And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. My wife works with men and women who have a hard time finding relationships, so I have a bit of insight here. You are completely wrong about what women want. You think that women are the same as men, but you are wrong. Women do not want a 'hottie'. I can tell you those women who go out with that 'hottie' have no self esteem, and are not happy. They e…

I think this misses the way inclinations change over one's lifespan. When you say women aren't interested in looks, well, not as much when they're 30 or 35. But when they're 16, 20, 24, they're a lot more open to a fun weekend, especially when they're so close at hand. And they're perhaps somewhat inclined to believe that someone who will spend a weekend with them might spend a lifetime. Later, the ice weasels come, and they realize it's not so.

This describes several of my ex's, and indeed, they did end up in therapy (or should have). I'm sure self-esteem has a role, and I tried hard to instill that in my step-daughters, to help them do better with this (and, as Chris Rock said, to keep them off the pole).

Men also change over time, of course. But a lot of what you're missing is simply that men like me never had a clue as to what to do when we were young. Not stubborn at all--just clueless. Two hundred years ago, it didn't really matter--sheer want would make things work.

Today, we're all so well off that few women really need to pair off. And those who plan on it tend to think more that they can do it a lot later. Unfortunately, by then, a lot of men have already rotted on the dock.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#602

Post by doc_gunthrop » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #563

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said there was a strict ordering of men. But there are characteristics that will make one man more desirable than another (e.g. good looks, height, wealth, social status, intelligence, etc.). How these factors rank may vary depending on the woman. You say that "a marriage is about finding a person who fits with you, and you can build a life together". So take the viewpoint from a pragmatic woman's perspective…

First, wouldn't everything you said about men also apply to women? How is it different? Second, there are a lot of other traits that aren't inherently good or bad; things like "do you like going out on the weekends or staying in" and "does your communication style work with mine?" and "are the things you are good at complimentary to the things I am good at?" My best friend and his wife get along great, but both my wi…

> First, wouldn't everything you said about men also apply to women? How is it different?

This thread has been discussing the implications of the observation quoted in the article: "Sexual activity was largely unchanged among unmarried women, along with no notable decline among gay men, researchers reported."

So it's unclear what point you're trying to make in relation to that.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#603

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #215

downerending wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this among the young men in my extended family and friends. One guy is model cute, and goes out on Tinder "dates" whenever he wants (new girl weekly, at least). He had a live-in girlfriend, but with an open relationship. And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. Even if you can't marry a hottie, if you can have sex with one a few times, that still sounds like fun. The other guys,…

> Instead, video games and pot. If their free time is about video games and pot, I would say they only have themselves to blame.

Okay, but when looking at societal outcomes, pointing the finger of blame isn't particularly useful.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#604

Post by eloisius » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:17 AM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #585

ironmagma wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but we have always had those avenues, and the bookstore example is quite outdated as well. The fact remains that if you remove a significant portion of the places where couples used to meet (work), you will see less romance happening. So far we haven’t created any new revolutionary third place to go meet each other, so this will be unlikely to change without a reversal of the attitude, which I suspect we’ll see…

Right, you had previous avenues, and you continue to as well. It's the contexts where someone could feel like their career success could be predicated on sexual capitulation that is increasingly off limits. Also, the bookstore analogy isn't that dated, gen z and millennials are bringing bookstores back. https://www.ingramcontent.com/blog/millennials-have-a-passio...

The most interesting thread in this whole post is down here at the bottom discussing where and how you can avoid falling into that 1/3! The bookstore in particular might be fair game, not sure. However, I have heard from women that I am friends or acquainted with how annoying it is to be hit on while in public places. The sidewalk, public transit, in line at the grocery store, at the coffee shop, etc. I've heard all of those described as places where a woman is just trying to do her thing and doesn't go there to be accosted by romantic advances.

I don't know if it's true across the board, or just applies to _some_ men, or what, but I know that I personally haven't never felt like I have the go-ahead to approach a woman at the park or something like that.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#605

Post by sjg007 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:24 AM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #492

sjg007 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advice to the normal guy in this scenario is to stop smoking pot and hit the gym. That will make up for a lot.

Sure some of one's attractiveness can be improved with fitness, but for everyone there's some amount of genetic lottery there; if you don't have it you ain't gonna get it.

Right but you are the product of a previous mating and kids to resemble their parents so the odds of that are low.

If you are a single guy looking for women the best places to live are NYC, Vancouver and parts of the Midwest with major hospitals. In those places there are more women than men. Yes you can work in SV but there’s way more guys then gals there.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#606

Post by eloisius » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #565

eloisius wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your premise omits the possibility that there is correlation among the diverse orderings that women apply to men. Or even barring that, that they don't converge to an aggregate ordering which is what GP is explaining that men experience.

Some traits will be clearly desirable, but so many aren't. Introvert/extrovert, opinions on how to raise kids, family goals, what sort of place you like to live (rural/urban), political views, conversation style, etc. Those are going to vary greatly amongst people.

Yes, some preferences vary widely, while others are more narrow, such as height, income, seniority/authority, and facial structure. In aggregate there is a clear spectrum from desirable to less desirable along those dimensions. It's definitely true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or attraction more generally, but it's hard to believe that being 1.60 m tall won't make you (in general) less attractive as a man.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#607

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

newguy1234 wrote: post #265

cortesoft wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any relationship they find will be tainted by knowing they weren't good enough to party with but good enough to marry. I am confused by this.... I would feel much better about myself knowing I was the one good enough to marry rather than the one who was only good enough to party with.

The problem is your spouse will not really find you attractive sexually. She will be with you because you have money and are a good provider. She really wants to be with the guy she partied with in her younger years, not you.

There is something to this, but it depends a lot on attitude. It will be true for someone who's entitled or an ingrate, and everyone should run fast and long away from such a person. There are a lot of them.

On the other hand, people who have suffered at length can be quite grateful to find a decent person. Someone like that can make a great wife (or husband).

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#608

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:31 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #566

bradlys wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can. But is reliability really the #1 attribute for people out there? Most people want a partner who excites them and who makes them happy. If they're unreliable then that can be a problem but usually a very desirable person has reliability in addition to everything else. When you're settling - you're usually settling for someone who is at least reliable but isn't very exciting.

After dating lots of people, one of the major factors in what made me decide to build a life with my wife was that I could count on her to be a reliable partner. That is soooo huge when choosing someone you are going to build a family with. It is way more important than any sort of animal sexual attraction.

I guess so, but I definitely wouldn't tell her that you're not really highly sexually attracted to her.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#609

Post by ironmagma » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

eloisius wrote: post #604

monocasa wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, you had previous avenues, and you continue to as well. It's the contexts where someone could feel like their career success could be predicated on sexual capitulation that is increasingly off limits. Also, the bookstore analogy isn't that dated, gen z and millennials are bringing bookstores back. https://www.ingramcontent.com/blog/millennials-have-a-passio...

The most interesting thread in this whole post is down here at the bottom discussing where and how you can avoid falling into that 1/3! The bookstore in particular might be fair game, not sure. However, I have heard from women that I am friends or acquainted with how annoying it is to be hit on while in public places. The sidewalk, public transit, in line at the grocery store, at the coffee shop, etc. I've heard all…

There’s never a time when it’s encouraged; that’s the whole game.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#610

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #415

tomp wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who wants to be last choice? Maybe many of these men will wise up and marry a foreign girl Is being a desperate choice of someone who faces "economic realities" so much better than being a desperate choice of someone who faces "biological realities"?

Given that apparently quite a few men have an issue if their wife makes more money than them, probably. Being a provider is generally valued by men, being a romantic fallback not so much.

I've never heard of a man having an issue with a wife that makes more.