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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#731

Post by thrwaway69 »

malandrew wrote: post #81
rayiner wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of demands is extremely tame for a fricking anarchist commune. Look at the list of "economic demands." The biggest ask is de-gentrification and rent control.

Those asks seem pretty incompatible with property law and the legislative process. You can't just unilaterally demand something like rent control and de-gentrification measures. The city government shouldn't even have (and probably doesn't have) the power to meet such demands.

No one owns any property. They are rented property by the society and a functioning government.

As such, it's totally right to take and redistribute things that doesn't belong to rich people only.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#732

Post by UnpossibleJim »

School-Cotton wrote: post #474
jakelazaroff wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you see stuff like that at music festivals as well, in the form of police. So I'm asking why this is scary or notable but that is not.

The only big music festival I've been to is Sasquatch (twice). I certainly did not see people with assault rifles there. Which festivals are you talking about?

Police and security at festivals almost never take guns into them (it's almost always private security) as the chance of someone taking their weapon in the chaos is too high and discharging a firearm in a crowd has a high chance of hitting a bystander. Pepper spray and batons are standard practice (though, of course, there are always bad actors. These are the exception, not the norm).

EDIT: Sorry. I should have stated that this is for liability issues more than any other reason, not out of any "goodness of the heart". Though, given the opportunity, most people will do the good thing rather than the out right psychotic thing, clinical testing has shown.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#733

Post by plokiju21 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #631
plokiju21 wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the right was in power (Congress, media, and so forth), they would be left. How much power does the right need before they're considered "in power"? They controlled both branches of congress and the presidency until 2018, and have a majority on the supreme court. Fox news is the most popular media platform, and have tremendous (but not full) control over the mainstream narrative. This as "in control" as a single…

You have left out a word perhaps I should have included in all caps: MEDIA.

I mentioned the media. Fox News has tremendous influence on the mainstream conversations/narrative. Not full control, but I don't think that's a requirement for being "in power"

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#734

Post by madengr »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #690
umvi wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless, full auto is misleadingly portrayed in media as being orders of magnitude more deadly than semi auto, hard to change that (for example[0]). Nevermind handguns kill more than all other gun types combined, it's the "military" style ones that politicians and media focus on because they look scary (again, also disregarding the fact that a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same de…

>a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same destructive power). I'd strongly argue against this point. Most hunting rifles have 5 round mags (legal limit for hunting in a lot of places). They won't accept 30 round mags. They're also chambered in more powerful calibers which have much more recoil. An active shooter with his dad's hunting rifle is much less dangerous than the same shooter wi…

The Texas Tower sniper killed 14 with a Remington 700, at up to 500 yards, though he had an M1 too.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#735

Post by chillacy »

Fellshard wrote: post #674
rideontime wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this particular individual has already had to walk back false statements: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-prote... > The Seattle Police Department walked back its claim, widely repeated in the news media, that denizens of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone are extorting businesses. > "That has not happened affirmatively," Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best in a news conference Thursday afternoo…

That's an individual, correct. My response, if you look, was to a post that posed the question: > How, after all the events of the last two weeks, is anyone still willing to take a police-person’s word as truth? That is not speaking of an individual, but of a group, and then asserting claims regarding all members of that group.

Government agency spokesperson says something => most people automatically give it higher credibility.

Of course technically that's a logical fallacy but in practice I don't think most people are used to questioning the truthfulness of official positions by the police.

In fact if we were to start questioning police truthfulness more, there'd be pretty big changes to how police testimony is treated in legal cases.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#736

Post by guerrilla »

thejynxed wrote: post #688
undersuit wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the laughter at the vegetable garden. Oh lets mock people for planting what could be food where it used to a a useless piece of turf. We shouldn't be mocking them we should be following their example across the country.

We mocked them because they didn't dig up the turf first before dumping the potting soil on top and planting things that are going to wash away into the nearest storm drain in the first heavy downpour.

Look up sheet mulching. They did that poorly rather than doing the wrong thing in an absolute sense as you suggest.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#737

Post by at_a_remove »

asdff wrote: post #679
at_a_remove wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have left out a word perhaps I should have included in all caps: MEDIA.

Whose media is the question. A bit under half of the votes went to Donald Trump 2016, and I bet few in this demographic are listening to NPR just like few who voted for Clinton are watching Hannity. There is this narrative among the right that the vast majority of media is left leaning, but given the numbers and viewership of conservative voices on cable news, talk radio, the internet, and the fact that nearly half t…

On the other hand, you've got CNN's Donna Brazile leaking debate questions and topics to Clinton's staff ahead of the debate. I'm at work so I don't have it on hand, but someone made a really amazing chart of the various relationships between Obama's staff and CNN's staff. I would have thought it was the work of a kook until I began to look up randomly selected relationships to verify them.

Aside from the LPFM repeater stations, largely used for religious broadcasting, I would say that the radio market has been completely captured by the left.

When it comes to the right, they have Fox for television networks and that's all.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#738

Post by newguy1234 »

renegading wrote: post #723
dannyw wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a public space. You can walk in. No one mans the gates.

Then why are they building walls? Why are there armed guards?

There are no armed guards. Some nut jobs did go there with guns but they didn't do anything. The current state of it...think of it like kids hanging out at the mall - skateboarding, socializing, eating and then they go home at night.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#739

Post by twirlip »

djsumdog wrote: post #489
ogre_codes wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the end game is I don't know, it's like a massive catch-22. People are sick of police abuses, but society needs police to some extent. I agree with much of what the protests are about, but struggle with their solutions.

But if you look at the numbers, police abuse has gone down. There were 1007 shootings by US police last year. Yes, that's still terribly high, even per-capita, for a high income/developed nation, but police departments have been embracing body cameras. If you watch YouTube channels like Donut Operator where people do police breakdowns, a lot of people .. really do deserve to get shot. Body cameras also make it way ea…

I don't think people hate police just to hate police. Here is Dave Chapelle's "8:46" video:

https://youtu.be/3tR6mKcBbT4

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#740

Post by shakezula »

notatoad wrote: post #695
undefined1 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portraying it as some mad max wasteland is absurd, but so is referring to it as even pseudo utopian. It's not sustainable in any way and there wasn't exactly a democratic process by which the residents of Seattle agreed to having a section of their city turned into an autonomous zone. Though it could be an interesting experiment to do this somewhere, I think it'd have to go through a vote.

>there wasn't exactly a democratic process by which the residents of Seattle agreed to having a section of their city turned into an autonomous zone it is still a protest, right? this is why peaceful protest is so hard, because as soon as it stops being violent people find some way to dismiss it. when stuff is being set on fire, the argument is "why can't they protest peacefully", but when the protest is actually pea…

Protest has to be inconvenient or else it can be ignored. People really don't understand how angry others must be to riot until they've _been that angry themselves_.
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