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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#591

Post by jakelazaroff »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #510
jakelazaroff wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the problem here. Can you tell me what it is that makes these people dangerous and scary, but the similarly armed protestors who showed up at government buildings a month ago — or, frankly, the police — fine?

What makes these people dangerous and scary is that they're carrying dangerous and scary weapons. The flak jackets and face masks aren't making it any less scary either. Personally, I'm not afraid of the police, of protesters, of armed militias, etc. I'm afraid of people with guns. Why does anyone carry a gun, unless they intend to use it, once some set of conditions obtain? I don't want to be around people like that…

Sure, that's fair — my question is really "what makes this person with a gun scarier than the other people with guns that we've seen lately?"

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#592

Post by darkerside »

TheGrim999 wrote: post #566
ogre_codes wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> police would like us to believe that without them, society turns to chaos The police benefit from chaos during these protests, I'm sure the temptation to foster chaos and destruction is quite high for them right now. It puts the protesters in a bad light and reinforces the idea that police are needed. There are multiple cases where police have been observed contributing to the chaos or just idling around while it h…

You think the protestors also don't benefit from chaos? Neither side is innocent here. Any time the police are pushed to the point where they use force on the protestors, mass media is then awash with out of context clips of the event, claiming police brutality, drumming up more support for the protestors and their cause. The more chaos, the better it is for the protester's message. There's lots of peaceful protests…

Because they are protests against the police, and the police don't like that? Simplest answer I can see

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#593

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ogre_codes wrote: post #584
TheGrim999 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the protestors also don't benefit from chaos? Neither side is innocent here. Any time the police are pushed to the point where they use force on the protestors, mass media is then awash with out of context clips of the event, claiming police brutality, drumming up more support for the protestors and their cause. The more chaos, the better it is for the protester's message. There's lots of peaceful protests…

> You think the protestors also don't benefit from chaos? Neither side is innocent here. I don't see how your point is relevant here. Protestors aren't paid with tax dollars. Cops are getting paid massive amounts of overtime to prevent looting and damage during this crisis and instead they are contributing to it.

From the mayor's public statements, it's clear that there's political pressure to not intervene - it doesn't seem to be solely a police decision.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#594

Post by wetmore »

tathougies wrote: post #192
nikkwong wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm personally very worried about this as someone who is heavily invested in the real estate market here. The issue of how to deal with the rapid growth in the city is multifaceted and it's difficult to pitch a stance on. At the very least, you could easily make an argument that a rising tide does not lift all boats; i.e. many people are personally not benefiting much from the tech-boom in the area. On the other…

> many people are personally not benefiting much from the tech-boom in the area Gosh how can you be so jealous of people you're willing to destroy their stuff. It's the same kind of xenophobia that fuels anti-immigrant rhetoric. People upset that those moving to 'their turf' happen to do better than them.

Surely the issue is deeper than jealousy. People develop strong connections to places, and when they begin to get priced out of the place they have a strong connection to, and an area's culture changes as a result, people grow upset by this.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#595

Post by krustyburger »

dgellow wrote: post #426
ShamelessC wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for leaving this one up. I understand it's not the discourse this site is directly interested in, but the occasional opportunity to debate such issues in an intelligent forum is something I have trouble finding elsewhere on the internet. Having said that, I'm sure these types of post create a lot of work for you. I appreciate the upkeep and please keep up the good work!

> the occasional opportunity to debate such issues in an intelligent forum is something I have trouble finding elsewhere on the internet. That's maybe the good place to ask: What are other places (maybe places more open to political discussions) the HN crowd would recommend for "intelligent discussions"? Twitter and Reddit are an awful mess at the moment.

This might merit its own Ask HN post. I’m curious what responses you might get.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#596

Post by 49531 »

motohagiography wrote: post #569
49531 wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's interesting how this is organized by largely college educated people, many of whom are not PoC Do you have a source for this? I haven't been able to find a list of people involved in organizing this.

Not a source I'd be willing to provide, especially given such lists are precisely what political organizers avoid sharing. However, as an exercise, you can see the make up of the civil society organizations and businesses who provide funding and support for social causes, and neither of these are made up of the uneducated or working poor.

My only experience with social causes is doing labor organizing in Seattle, but that experience has been almost exclusively organized and run by uneducated working poor.

My point being that from what it looks like, there probably isn't a list of people organizing the CHAZ because it's mostly a spontaneous reaction to the current circumstances. They're explicitly non-hierarchical, and if they look anything like the circles of activism I've worked with in Seattle they're probably made up of more working class activists than this idea of liberal business owners.

But that is just my assumption based on my own anecdotal experience, I don't live in Seattle anymore and haven't been to the CHAZ myself.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#597

Post by noobaccount »

DenisM wrote: post #568
jakelazaroff wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the problem here. Can you tell me what it is that makes these people dangerous and scary, but the similarly armed protestors who showed up at government buildings a month ago — or, frankly, the police — fine?

The police follow orders from their chain of command that goes up to an elected official. You can petition the elected official, occupy their building, grill them in the media, and vote them out if you convince the other citizens. For example the knee-to-the-neck move was a part of the "orders" in that it was part of standard procedure and it is now being revised and removed. Similarly the tear gas was part of the pr…

I believe the issue today is that the police are causing violence against the people with little power in our political system. To those people the distinction you are making is without a difference.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#598

Post by [deleted] »

thu2111 wrote: post #348
gabesk wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also about that far away and walked through there last night. It felt more like a summer street fair festival. I also took a few pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/UN8RpwWS5TYAY5Nn7

But then there's also this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyClgU4AEJnWf?format=jpg&name=... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyCmMUEAEn_1o?format=jpg&name=... I've not before seen a summer street festival where armed militias wearing bulletproof vests patrol the streets.

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#600

Post by ShamelessC »

dgellow wrote: post #426
ShamelessC wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for leaving this one up. I understand it's not the discourse this site is directly interested in, but the occasional opportunity to debate such issues in an intelligent forum is something I have trouble finding elsewhere on the internet. Having said that, I'm sure these types of post create a lot of work for you. I appreciate the upkeep and please keep up the good work!

> the occasional opportunity to debate such issues in an intelligent forum is something I have trouble finding elsewhere on the internet. That's maybe the good place to ask: What are other places (maybe places more open to political discussions) the HN crowd would recommend for "intelligent discussions"? Twitter and Reddit are an awful mess at the moment.

This has been asked before here. The best answers were essentially niche blogs with commenting systems and niche subreddits.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20023209

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