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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#571

Post by devalgo »

mcv wrote: post #497
djsumdog wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the end game is. The police is not going to disband. People asking for that don't understand how States work. You cannot have a State without a monopoly on violence. America disbanded police once, in 2003, in a city called Baghdad. That turned out wonderfully. I suspect they'll all just get bored at some point.

They apparently also did it in Camden, NJ, and that turned out quite well. I think the real issue here is: the police want to show that without them, things turn to chaos. Instead, they show that with them, things turn to chaos. Meanwhile, the protesters want to show that without the police, things are peaceful, and they seem to be succeeding. That's not a great story for people who believe in police brutality, of co…

>They apparently also did it in Camden, NJ, and that turned out quite well.

This is an appalling misunderstanding of what really happened in Camden. Take a trip there, know what you'll find? Police cars, policemen and police stations. THEY STILL HAVE POLICE! What they REALLY did was a police reboot, essentially fired everyone and rebuilt from the ground up. People who point to Camden to try and support their narrative are dangerously misinformed.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#572

Post by [deleted] »

cma wrote: post #284
colllectorof wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground This seems like propaganda in its own right. With the exception of Fox and Sky, most news coverage I see on YouTube is neutral or positive: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=capitol+hill+au... Most mainstream coverage of p…

Fox is by far the most popular news channel in the US and pretty close to bigger than the rest combined.

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#573

Post by kyleblarson »

My first thought was 'I feel bad for the people who spent a million bucks on a condo in Pike / Pine', but my second thought was that these are likely also people who voted for people like Sawant so they made their own bed.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#574

Post by 0x262d »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #208
throwaway894345 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> media that treats cop lies uncritically Which media is that?

cable news, evening news, most news on TV. Its a weirdly common viewpoint, at least after the past 2 weeks, that law enforcement officers do not lie.

that's always been common. the "better" (not really) approach is to simply report "police reported that x, y, z happened" without any sort of critical perspective or fact check at all.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#575

Post by 0x262d »

baryphonic wrote: post #455
0x262d wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A handful of incidents like these are being distorted and blown up by media that treats cop lies uncritically. In comparison, just a few nights ago, cops were beating people and filling the area with tear gas (banned under geneva convention) and it was seeping into residential homes so badly that even nextdoor is anti-police in that area now.

I find it hard to take comments seriously when they make statements that just don't accord with reality. The media treats cops according to what's best for the story. Lately, that involves being extremely critical of them. In other times when we aren't in the midst of a pandemic, mass unemployment and then nationwide protests, and the story is that the cops shot a criminal suspect, they use euphemisms like "officer-i…

Viewing the media's relationship to police as being simply for or against them based on swings of public opinion is incorrect, it is maybe partially true but there is a strong and consistent bias towards law and order by corporate (private for profit) media. There are numerous reporters in Seattle still uncritically reporting police lies. There are a handful who are being more critical. Guess who has more resources and broader reach?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#576

Post by hopfscotch2 »

drevil-v2 wrote: post #375
pera wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD I live 7 blocks away from "the zone" and can confirm, I have never in my life seen anything alike in this regard. The scale of the misinformation being spread in social networks and news media reached a level I couldn't believe possible before. Seriously, it's beyond absurd. If anyone is interested, I have been taking some pictures of the ongoing protests (including a few of the zon…

Seattle police chief said on TV [1] that "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we're not able to get to [them]." Doesn’t sound very utopian [1] https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1271291958296604675?s=2...

All police are liars.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#577

Post by ogre_codes »

Izkata wrote: post #536
djsumdog wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you look at the numbers, police abuse has gone down. There were 1007 shootings by US police last year. Yes, that's still terribly high, even per-capita, for a high income/developed nation, but police departments have been embracing body cameras. If you watch YouTube channels like Donut Operator where people do police breakdowns, a lot of people .. really do deserve to get shot. Body cameras also make it way ea…

> Yes there are probably 8%~10% that are psychos and I think most officers wish they could get rid of those people from their ranks too I personally don't think it's even close to that high. We never see a denominator; how many millions of police interactions are happening that we just don't hear about because nothing went badly?

How do you count bad-apples?

Are we just talking about the guys who actually murder people in custody, or do the ones who beat the crap out of them or rape them count also?

Also, do we count the cops who lie and cover up for the abusive cops as bad apples or are they just like neutral apples? If these complicit cops count as bad-apples, then we're talking something like 60-70% of the force.

And it's that last category is the one that concerns me because ultimately so long as the whole "Brothers in Blue"/ "Snitches get Stitches " attitude is pervasive in police culture, it's going to be impossible to root out the actual psychos. "Good cops" are willing to cover up for bad cops, the DA won't prosecute cops, judges take cops word at face value... so long as that exists, this problem exists.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#578

Post by hopfscotch2 »

lwheelock wrote: post #425
gnu8 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not expect the rate of rapes, robberies, and violent acts to drop to zero unless the area is completely depopulated. However, I think it is safe to assume that there are fewer instances occurring now that the police are excluded from the area.

With what logic is it “safe to assume that”? Police presence ergo more rape?

Yes. Where police go, violence follows.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#579

Post by Fellshard »

iron0013 wrote: post #520
drevil-v2 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle police chief said on TV [1] that "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we're not able to get to [them]." Doesn’t sound very utopian [1] https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1271291958296604675?s=2...

How, after all the events of the last two weeks, is anyone still willing to take a police-person’s word as truth?

Because some people are still rational enough to treat individuals on an individual basis.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#580

Post by hopfscotch2 »

DenisM wrote: post #568
jakelazaroff wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the problem here. Can you tell me what it is that makes these people dangerous and scary, but the similarly armed protestors who showed up at government buildings a month ago — or, frankly, the police — fine?

The police follow orders from their chain of command that goes up to an elected official. You can petition the elected official, occupy their building, grill them in the media, and vote them out if you convince the other citizens. For example the knee-to-the-neck move was a part of the "orders" in that it was part of standard procedure and it is now being revised and removed. Similarly the tear gas was part of the pr…

"on occasion" this is hysterical
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