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Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

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Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#451

Post by ziml77 »

dlkinney wrote: post #296
yiyus wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is not a faith based system. If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments.

The study referenced by his reference is not very good.[1] They use full white and full black for all modes. As we know, dark theme is typically white on dark gray (or equivalent), not pure white on pure black. I can't think of any dark mode that uses pure black. (AOSP, IOS, macOS, etc.) This alone invalidates the study, because it doesn't reflect the real world. Science is only as good as it is rigorous, and if it f…

"Invalidates" might be a bit strong, since it still does show that white on black isn't a great choice. It just doesn't follow from the study that the average dark theme is worse than the average light theme.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#452

Post by mixmastamyk »

redisman wrote: post #81
floatrock wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...buried 2 or 3 menu layers deep, using a magic sequence of three buttons to handle all the up-down/left-right multi-level hierarchical menu navigation complexities. One of Apple's biggest innovations imho was to make brightness +/- two of the default keyboard buttons. Every keyboard should replace their F-keys with brightness by default (seriously, who uses F-keys? It's wasted real estate.) TV's should do this too.…

It's insane how monitor software hasn't developed an inch from the 90s. How hard can it be to have an open API for the basic controls at least so the OS can adjust them? Everything about my monitor is great - 144hz refresh rate, great viewing angle and colors - except if I want to change any of the physical properties (brightness, contrast) I'm clicking around on a variety of buttons that I can't see like I'm trying…

I have a script with ddccontrol to change brightness of my external monitor:

    ddccontrol -r 0x10 -w ${NUM}0  dev:/dev/i2c-${DEV_NUM}
The internal:

    BACKLIGHT_PATH="/sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness"
    sh -c "echo ${NUM} > $BACKLIGHT_PATH"
The numbers are a slightly different scale, so I adjust them in the script.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#454

Post by dekhn »

HappySweeney wrote: post #446
dekhn wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have multiple misunderstandings about how science provides valuable results. The first thing I want to say is that I don't devalue your personal experience. I am unaware of any fighter jet seat problem. If you use the average, you're actually pretty likely (depending on the shape of the distribution, which in the case of phenotypes like body size, are normally distributed when broken down by gender) to fi…

The fighter-jet seat problem is pretty famous. https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...

The article you cited is an interesting just-so explanation but it's mostly narrative, not really correct. It's based on this book https://www.harpercollins.ca/9780062358363/the-end-of-averag... which espouses some rather non-quantitative concepts (it seems like the author had a hobbyhorse and they rode it as far as they could).

I don't know that it's "pretty famous", as I find only a few references to it (the book I mentioned, the article you mentioned, and a few other references).

I worked in biology for a long time and work with ML datasets that make money based on statistical analysis of people properties and the idea that "no one is average" is technically correct and also completely missing the point of scientific analysis (I definitely acknowledge that science doesn't do a good job with personalization).

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#455

Post by htfu »

derefr wrote: post #437

One thing I know is pretty well-researched about light, is that our brains produce dopamine in response to optic-nerve signals hitting our https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprachiasmatic_nucleus . This response is what causes circadian entrainment, but it also just has the same effect as any other dopaminergic agonism in the brain: increasing motivational arousal. This is why light-therapy lamps warn you not to use the…

A lot of your points look suspect to me, could you link to some studies? While light surely ought to affect dopamine levels[0] isn't this in both senses secondary to - downstream from, the main melatonin/cortisol cycle driving our circadian rhythms? Your linked wiki article contains zero mentions of dopamine.

If 30 minute+ light-therapy made you manic so would working a field in summer, a hundred times over. Outside of drugs and illness there is little one can do to escape even short-term homeostasis. Nothing is linear and everything has feedback limiting it.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3819153/#!po=50...

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#456

Post by [deleted] »

dekhn wrote: post #440
marcus_holmes wrote: post #241

Wait. So. "Multiple studies show that light mode is better" trumps my actual experience, with my eyeballs, in my office environment? No. No it doesn't. 1. I don't have that much faith in scientists. Someone trying to p-hack their way to a publishable result that's sensational enough to advance their career is not going to produce good advice for me. 2. Even if they were perfect scientists, they're not using my eyebal…

I think you have multiple misunderstandings about how science provides valuable results. The first thing I want to say is that I don't devalue your personal experience. I am unaware of any fighter jet seat problem. If you use the average, you're actually pretty likely (depending on the shape of the distribution, which in the case of phenotypes like body size, are normally distributed when broken down by gender) to fi…

[deleted]

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#457

Post by coffeeling »

3000000001 wrote: post #15
gruez wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>White text scatters over the iris on a dark background, so it’s harder to read the copy. I’ve even read it in UX articles. That doesn't make sense. Why does light from white text scatter, but not light from white background?

This makes intuitive sense to me. I assume it’s to do with more overall light being emitted from a white background/black text combo being easier for our eye to process.

Yup, the light theme advantage is due to it emitting more light than a dark theme at the same brightness setting.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#458

Post by athenot »

asdkhadsj wrote: post #361
athenot wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dark mode has 2 main advantages: - Better rendering of hues. This comes in nice for things like syntax coloring, or photo editing. The eye is evaluating a color next to the absence of light, instead of next to washed out light. - Less eye strain when ambient light is insufficient. Ideally the brightness of the screen should be within the same range of brighness as the surroundings. In my home office, I have about 20,…

Any comments on optimal lighting for a home office? Or, as your setup is? A nice bright working area sounds nice. Bonus if it's good light, and not something that will feel unnatural. Sidenote: I've got a nice big window that I face, and I often want it open, but my room is so dark I have to keep it mostly closed as it overpowers my monitor, eyes, etc.

I have several compact fluorescent bulbs each outputting 8,600 lumen. Since the bulbs measure about 10" long, the only fixture I found to work is suspend a bare socket and attach a giant paper lantern.

When selecting light, I pay attention to the temperature of the light (I like 5000K for daylight) and the Color Rendering Index (CRI) which is a measure of the quality of light. Technically you can make "white" with only 3 wavelengths, however the broader the spectrum of light (many wavelengths), the better it shows on reflected surfaces. It's not highly relevant to the topic of eye strain with screens but it's a nice touch that makes the area more comfortable.

Recently, I started exploring LED lights and there are some really good options appearing on the market. I tested some spot lights with a CRI of 92 which look even better than halogens. So when it comes time for me to replace my CFLs, I might end up with a better option.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#459

Post by [deleted] »

yiyus wrote: post #254
marcus_holmes wrote: post #241

Wait. So. "Multiple studies show that light mode is better" trumps my actual experience, with my eyeballs, in my office environment? No. No it doesn't. 1. I don't have that much faith in scientists. Someone trying to p-hack their way to a publishable result that's sensational enough to advance their career is not going to produce good advice for me. 2. Even if they were perfect scientists, they're not using my eyebal…

Science is not a faith based system. If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments.

[deleted]

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#460

Post by robotmay »

username90 wrote: post #438
robotmay wrote: post #197

Dark modes are a choice. Light modes are a choice. Everyone is free to choose what they like, so trying to influence people one way or another, or criticising their choice, is unproductive. I live in Wales, a country where our default weather is "meh". I live on the dark side of a mountain. I work in a room with no external windows. Yes I use dark modes, and if you used light mode in my office I'd think you were a fu…

> I live on the dark side of a mountain. I work in a room with no external windows. You don't have lamps? I think most people prefer to have properly lit rooms, and then you also want a light theme on the computer. If you like sitting in the darkness this might not apply to you.

Haha I do have lamps, at least, though it's not quite the same as getting actual daylight. I'm now using a bunch of Hue bulbs to try to emulate real light a bit better. Even still, I prefer dark themes for most things. I'm not really talking white-text-on-black though, I usually use https://draculatheme.com
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