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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#381

Post by at_a_remove »

spoopyskelly wrote: post #346
narrator wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the media has been playing this up like crazy to try and get the alt-right to react. The alt-right consensus, at least on 4chan, is the absolute best thing for the alt-right to do to get the Democratic party to look stupid and inept and invite a voter backlash is to do nothing.

You thinking 4chan is "alt-right" and they have a consensus is just as ridiculous as facebook boomer/media reactions to CHAZ and it being Mad Max style postapocalyptic.

4chan sort of has a consensus in that it is contrarian by default. If the right was in power (Congress, media, and so forth), they would be left. The contrarian stance extends within itself in a fractal manner, so of course you have people inside objecting to that.

However, the image I cannot stop smiling at is an elongated figure with an FBI cap, glowing green and using a stick to poke at a small ball with the 4chan logo, with the speech bubble "C'mon, do domestic terrorism."

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#382

Post by latencyloser »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #257
dag11 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD Yep. I live three blocks south of CHAZ and it's so overblown. Conservative family from the east-coast have told me they're very worried for me, and I check fox news and see images from "Seattle" of parking lots of cars on fire. Those images were from Minneapolis last month, not even from Seattle. As another nearby commenter said, last week when the police were here gassing us, throw…

On the right, I am seeing: - It's called Antifastan - Warlord Raz is prone to violent outbursts, and is an AirBnb Superhost. - There are open carries with automatic rifles. They get the most respect. - Laughing out loud at an attempt to create a vegetable garden. Didn't appear promising. - Laughing harder at a cry for 'please send vegan meats and soy products, the homeless took all the food!' My thinking is, the trut…

Those are not automatic rifles, they're very likely all semi-automatic. Semi-automatic rifles can look the same as automatic rifles, visual appearance doesn't mean much. Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually vs ~$500 for a semi-automatic variant.

Sorry if that seems pedantic, but the media uses the understandably easy confusion between the two to misrepresent issues around gun rights a lot.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#383

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

chrissnell wrote: post #280
narrator wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the media has been playing this up like crazy to try and get the alt-right to react. The alt-right consensus, at least on 4chan, is the absolute best thing for the alt-right to do to get the Democratic party to look stupid and inept and invite a voter backlash is to do nothing.

This jibes with what I'm seeing. Fox News is trying their damndest to get people worked up and generate support for intervention. Amongst my friends (many right-leaning), there is a strong consensus that this is a trap laid for Trump and that the best thing to do for everybody involved is to ignore it and leave it to the Seattle government. If it really is as chill as folks say here, it settles down and is out of the…

I agree to some degree here.

Fox, like every other network CNN MSNBC etc most of the left, is simply looking for eyeballs. Thats not new.

What is new is this sort of thing starting.

While it is great to hear from people near, no one is really reporting the residents / property owners INSIDE the zone.

Are they safe? Are they been harrassed? Are business owners being able to freely go about their business? Are customers able to go to them if protesters are barricaded?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#384

Post by zeveb »

cma wrote: post #284
colllectorof wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground This seems like propaganda in its own right. With the exception of Fox and Sky, most news coverage I see on YouTube is neutral or positive: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=capitol+hill+au... Most mainstream coverage of p…

Fox is by far the most popular news channel in the US and pretty close to bigger than the rest combined.

I was all set to post a comment about how I dream of an honestly fair and balanced news channel, unlike Fox, CNN or MSNBC. I was going to post some outrageous headlines from each site right now. Surprisingly, the front page of foxnews.com was pretty sane and sober, remarkably so — and by far better than cnn.com or msnbc.com.

I am honestly stunned. I really expected Fox News to be as much of a dumpster fire as CNN or MSNBC. Certainly their video coverage, every time I have walked in front of a TV playing them, has been horrible. And I could swear that maybe six or seven months ago I walked by someone with a browser open to the Fox News site, and it was just execrable.

Maybe they are trying to turn over a new leaf?

That said, I still dream of truly fair news channel. Not opinion masquerading as news: actual, trying-to-be-objective news.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#385

Post by idownvoted »

gabesk wrote: post #253
pera wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD I live 7 blocks away from "the zone" and can confirm, I have never in my life seen anything alike in this regard. The scale of the misinformation being spread in social networks and news media reached a level I couldn't believe possible before. Seriously, it's beyond absurd. If anyone is interested, I have been taking some pictures of the ongoing protests (including a few of the zon…

I'm also about that far away and walked through there last night. It felt more like a summer street fair festival. I also took a few pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/UN8RpwWS5TYAY5Nn7

I know those "summer festivals" from Europe.

Especially the "free spech"-debates and their "diversity" of opinion. I just imagine how it must feel living there for years and not being 100%-OK with your neighbourhood becoming a "summer street fair".

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#386

Post by Taikonerd »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #372
aazaa wrote: post #287

The first (of several) demands reads: > The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also d…

As someone with close ties to an existing third party, they shouldn't put much hope on forming one and seeing it succeed. The American electoral system makes it nearly impossible for third parties to gain traction. And that's before you take into account that the people most likely to join third parties are also the most likely to be fringe personalities with little mainstream appeal and a penchant for causing intern…

> The American electoral system makes it nearly impossible for third parties to gain traction.

That's true, under the existing system. And that makes it attractive to reform the system, to make it easier for third parties to grow.

For example, approval voting was passed in Fargo recently: https://www.electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/approval...

tl;dr -- third parties can't grow as long as "splitting the vote" is a thing. But some voting systems have that and others don't.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#387

Post by wombat-man »

jmpman wrote: post #378

I’ve always wondered, if a community like this were able to completely leave the US, and didn’t have to pay for the military, or the police, would they be able to fund their own demands for free healthcare, free college, etc? I’m going to guess that overall, the occupants are below the average income level of Seattle, but would they be able to afford the lifestyle they’re requesting?

I mean, they're setting up shop in the center of a city. They are building on top of everything they claim to not need.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#388

Post by wing-_-nuts »

latencyloser wrote: post #382
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the right, I am seeing: - It's called Antifastan - Warlord Raz is prone to violent outbursts, and is an AirBnb Superhost. - There are open carries with automatic rifles. They get the most respect. - Laughing out loud at an attempt to create a vegetable garden. Didn't appear promising. - Laughing harder at a cry for 'please send vegan meats and soy products, the homeless took all the food!' My thinking is, the trut…

Those are not automatic rifles, they're very likely all semi-automatic. Semi-automatic rifles can look the same as automatic rifles, visual appearance doesn't mean much. Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually vs ~$500 for a semi-automatic variant. Sorry if that seems pedantic, but the media uses the understandably ea…

The whole 'fully automatic rifle' is such a nothing burger anyway. M4s and M16s aren't controllable on fully automatic at anything over 10m. Watch modern combat footage of any trained unit, and I guarantee you'll see them using semi auto.

My point? Semi auto AR-15s are every bit as effective and deadly as their fully automatic military counterparts. Whether civilians should have such weapons is another discussion.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#389

Post by danharaj »

jmpman wrote: post #378

I’ve always wondered, if a community like this were able to completely leave the US, and didn’t have to pay for the military, or the police, would they be able to fund their own demands for free healthcare, free college, etc? I’m going to guess that overall, the occupants are below the average income level of Seattle, but would they be able to afford the lifestyle they’re requesting?

Is "lifestyle" the most appropriate word you could choose for "access to healthcare and education"?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#390

Post by fallingfrog »

jmpman wrote: post #378

I’ve always wondered, if a community like this were able to completely leave the US, and didn’t have to pay for the military, or the police, would they be able to fund their own demands for free healthcare, free college, etc? I’m going to guess that overall, the occupants are below the average income level of Seattle, but would they be able to afford the lifestyle they’re requesting?

Remember too though that they would likely declare all property to be the property of the people of the zone, which means no rent to any landlords and no overhead going to owners of capital, plus no taxes going to the state, so they would be able to free up a lot of resources. The Zapatistas in Mexico have been quite successful at building a decent health care system out of nothing, despite being some of the poorest people in the world.
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