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New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

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Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more bureaucratic Anyone who's actually had to deal with a union can agree with this point. At our company, a number of job functions are union-only work, meaning it is a violation of the union contract for any non-union employee to perform that work. In principle, you might think that makes sense, until you need to get something very simple done - that you are willing to…

I'm in a union and see similar things, but instead of using lawyers, the union would note that the contract had been violated, and management will typically agree to pay the people who would have done the work. If it's just 10 minutes, the union probably wouldn't bother with it - unless it's a pattern, and in that case, they'd add up all the 10-minute transgressions. I often disagree with the focuses of my union, but…

> ...a union does is balance the leverage. Without them, the employer has all of it.

Maybe that's true of low labor jobs, but Employees in six figure jobs have tremendous power.

One of the reasons companies try to create anti-potching rules is exactly to try to get back some power.

The unemployment rate in the US was 4% prior to covid, and even lower for tech and white collar desk jobs.

This issue simply must take a back seat to bigger problems in America.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd love to have a workable union system for tech workers here, but I just don't see what they offer unless you can persuade meaningful numbers of your coworkers to sign up That's what organizing is. Take personal reaponsability and form or join a union together. It's not something you do on your own and that in fact can be dangerous.

Forming a union on your own is bound to fail...

Youn don't form one on your own.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask any nurse, plumber, or teacher in the United States if they really feel they have the power to replace union reps that are perpetuating such practices. Power perpetuates power

Now ask any engineer in the US if they have the power to replace management that perpetuates bad practices.

They do. It's called finding another job.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd, laughable and not how a single union works in Sweden and essentially the enrire country is unionized.

This is how unions work in America - and why we hate them. People throw the word "union" around a lot with their support, not knowing that it's not the same everywhere.

Thta's the responsability of the participants. It sounds like they've been complacent and they allowing people to represent them who do not represent them.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#155
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, I have no idea how unions work in the US. But there was the example of Dwayne Johnson, earning 90 Million and being a union member. The collective bargaining I am used to, has the effect in some cases of maybe overpaying certain individuals. IMHO that always happens. It doesn't drag salaries anywhere but up so. And there is a cap on salary levels and job levels being covered by unions collective bargaining…

>Above these levels, it is what you negotiate with your employer Teachers cannot negotiate salary, thanks to unions. The best teacher in America is paid the same as the worst teacher.

How do you reliably measure teacher quality?

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#156
post #112
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly bad unions. But I think that often arises as a reaction to poisonous management behavior, a zero-sum mentality that treats workers as a cost center, not a value generator. It's a "fuck me, no fuck you" scenario. Your point about the Hollywood unions is a great one. Like tech, in Hollywood everybody has clear incentives to create a great final product. Positive-sum thinking usually part of the cult…

> union is something the workers create and run I just assume that it's almost never going to be the case. It might look like it's created by worker, but it's created by a sub group of workers which is unhappy with a status quo. This effort will be led by even smaller sub group of activists that have a drive and skillset to organise and weasel into a leadership positions. Worker run union seems to be even more implau…

Unions are run by the members

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more bureaucratic Anyone who's actually had to deal with a union can agree with this point. At our company, a number of job functions are union-only work, meaning it is a violation of the union contract for any non-union employee to perform that work. In principle, you might think that makes sense, until you need to get something very simple done - that you are willing to…

I've worked plenty of union jobs that didn't have this problem. Like the original comment said: yes, some unions are bad. But it's ridiculous to pretend they're all like what you dealt with.

But it's also ridiculous to pretend they're all rainbows and sunshine, too. Some people have valid reasons for not wanting to be part of a union, and some people have valid reasons for wanting to be part of a union. Dismissing either group is wrong.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#158
post #25

I used to work at Facebook, and it was always interesting to me to see just how many engineers were actively against - aghast, even - at the idea of unions. Whenever it would come up on the internal boards the arguments were usually along the lines of: * "People who don't deserve to be paid more will get more money under a union" * "I'll be paid less under a union" * "Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more b…

Then again, how many tech-workers at Facebook have previously been unionized employees?

Software development is rarely, if ever, unionized - and I'd imagine the majority of FAANG workers starting at said companies within 5 years of graduating from college.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now ask any engineer in the US if they have the power to replace management that perpetuates bad practices.

They do. It's called finding another job.

Birling: […] So I refused. Said I couldn't consider it. We were paying the usual rates and if they didn't like those rates, they could go and work somewhere else. It's a free country, I told them.

Eric: It isn't if you can't go and work somewhere else.

— J. B. Priestley

Not everyone is in a position to find another job. And what do you do if the best place you can work is still rubbish? What if you're an ISP tech?

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#160
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more bureaucratic Anyone who's actually had to deal with a union can agree with this point. At our company, a number of job functions are union-only work, meaning it is a violation of the union contract for any non-union employee to perform that work. In principle, you might think that makes sense, until you need to get something very simple done - that you are willing to…

Well, sorry to be blunt but that's fucking stupid. Contrast that with my experience with Unions in Sweden; and that is that they basically don't exist except to ensure that workers rights are not infringed. So they'll be involved in a termination, or help negotiate overtime pay. There is no such thing as a "union job", it's just having what's referred to as a "collective agreement".

Well if you live in Sweden maybe being a unionized software engineer isn’t that bad. If you live in USA it’s another story. Sweden has different history, culture, and labor laws than US and so Swedish unions don’t work the same way as US unions.
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