Why are there so many humans? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#21

Post by Supermancho » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #7

reedwolf wrote: post #5

I believe all genetically possible humans should be brought into existence. If we imagine the set of all genetic combinations that result in something that could be conceivably thought of as “human,” only an infinitesimal fraction of humans will ever be born through traditional sexual recombination. To be born is to win a lottery with astronomically long odds. As biotechnology advances, we will be able to conceive an…

Don't believe that makes sense. Being human is defined by existing humans. Change the genes too much, it non-human. Not sure how to draw a line.

> Being human is defined by existing humans.

That's a philosophy, not a fact. Individuals and organizations define things by all sorts of criteria. eg temporally, consensus and differentiation are just a few. It's not as simple as "we all agree this zebra is a human".

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#22

Post by throwaway894345 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

ourmandave wrote: post #6

yesenadam wrote: post #3

Arghh it's that site with the "Yes I love humans" / "No I'm not human" popup obscuring the screen after a few seconds again. It's kind of cute, but my natural response to that is back button. I don't know what it's trying to say. Can't be just me it puts off like that. What a shame, it seemed like a fascinating article.

...but my natural response to that is back button. Lead web dev: "We need to hijack the back button."

My favorite is when they just dump the URL to the history endlessly so you can never go far enough back. I see this on a surprising number of otherwise reputable sites, and then I immediately leave the site and set my browser to blacklist it.

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#23

Post by GuiA » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

reedwolf wrote: post #5

I believe all genetically possible humans should be brought into existence. If we imagine the set of all genetic combinations that result in something that could be conceivably thought of as “human,” only an infinitesimal fraction of humans will ever be born through traditional sexual recombination. To be born is to win a lottery with astronomically long odds. As biotechnology advances, we will be able to conceive an…

This is the first time I’ve read the argument that it is our moral duty to give existence to all the humans in the set that is all possible DNA permutations that encode human beings, and I have to thank you for that.

Might make for a good scifi story.

You need a catchy slogan, like “enumerate all humans!”

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#24

Post by mrexroad » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 12:58 AM UTC

reedwolf wrote: post #5

I believe all genetically possible humans should be brought into existence. If we imagine the set of all genetic combinations that result in something that could be conceivably thought of as “human,” only an infinitesimal fraction of humans will ever be born through traditional sexual recombination. To be born is to win a lottery with astronomically long odds. As biotechnology advances, we will be able to conceive an…

> I’m sure we’ll be able to identify extremely negative mutations and either fix them or abandon those genomes.

will the resulting eugenics wars [0] be simulated [1] as well?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_wars

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Taste_of_Armageddon

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#25

Post by mindfulhack » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 1:08 AM UTC

I know this is off topic, but: There are too many of us. If we can't override our survival instinct to multiply (and consume) uncontrollably, then we are at risk of making ourselves extinct. Then there will be none of us.

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#26

Post by ianmcgowan » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 1:12 AM UTC

reedwolf wrote: post #5

I believe all genetically possible humans should be brought into existence. If we imagine the set of all genetic combinations that result in something that could be conceivably thought of as “human,” only an infinitesimal fraction of humans will ever be born through traditional sexual recombination. To be born is to win a lottery with astronomically long odds. As biotechnology advances, we will be able to conceive an…

As weird as that sounds in practice, the idea of doing it in simulation sounds very similar to the idea of "orphanogenesis" in Diaspora. Though most new "people" are formed by mixing the traits of existing individuals, every once in a while the society will create a new person by randomly mixing some traits and keeping track of the resulting genotype. The person so-formed is called an orphan in the book. Awesome hard sci-fi idea...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel)#Plot_summary

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#27

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 1:17 AM UTC

mindfulhack wrote: post #25

I know this is off topic, but: There are too many of us. If we can't override our survival instinct to multiply (and consume) uncontrollably, then we are at risk of making ourselves extinct. Then there will be none of us.

Industrialized countries have done a pretty good job at getting us to override the instinct to reproduce uncontrollably.

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#28

Post by golemiprague » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

chadcmulligan wrote: post #19

ericmcer wrote: post #17

Are we entering a new phase in human existence? The close knit tribe that thrived with cooperation is definitely in its death throes right now, at least in the developed world. Is it possible for us to cooperate on a global scale though, or are we still too primitive, our consciousness too weak to comprehend our place in such a massive system.

> The close knit tribe that thrived with cooperation is definitely in its death throes right now Is it? I think there are a lot of social systems that are being tested at the moment, some are failing. There are many developed countries that are improving their cooperation in the current crisis - I'm in one - Australia, there are others that have seemed to come together, and others that have failed abysmally. No doubt…

Australia is no different to any other western country, stop making it as if it is some beacon of cooperation just because it had less corona cases, it is not even relevant.

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#29

Post by adventured » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

chadcmulligan wrote: post #19

ericmcer wrote: post #17

Are we entering a new phase in human existence? The close knit tribe that thrived with cooperation is definitely in its death throes right now, at least in the developed world. Is it possible for us to cooperate on a global scale though, or are we still too primitive, our consciousness too weak to comprehend our place in such a massive system.

> The close knit tribe that thrived with cooperation is definitely in its death throes right now Is it? I think there are a lot of social systems that are being tested at the moment, some are failing. There are many developed countries that are improving their cooperation in the current crisis - I'm in one - Australia, there are others that have seemed to come together, and others that have failed abysmally. No doubt…

> I can imagine if you're in a country with a thousand deaths a day, things don't look good.

You're obviously referring to the US during the pandemic of 1968-1969, which - as everyone knows - ended the United States forever, because things were so bad in tandem with the severe civil chaos occurring at the time (which was worse than anything going on now in multiple ways). The US never recovered; its superpower status, its wealth and power all vanished from there. Oh wait, that didn't happen at all.

I'm in the US, the future looks great, if you can see beyond the tip of your nose. Historically the US always improves thanks to the types of challenges that are going on now, rather than getting worse. In my short lifetime I've lived through several occasions of: 'things are so bad, this is the end of the US' type over-drama (which is farcical).

The US is radically more resilient than people outside of the US will ever understand. It's why the never-ending expectations of our national demise and erosion, going all the way back to our formation, have always turned out so embarrassingly wrong. They're wrong now as well.

What surprises me is observing the foreign/outside estimation of what it takes to essentially break a nation. I'm surprised the rest of the world is so fragile, they're mentally projecting their own low breaking points onto the US in the criticism.

Re: Why are there so many humans?

#30

Post by RhysU » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 1:30 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #27

mindfulhack wrote: post #25

I know this is off topic, but: There are too many of us. If we can't override our survival instinct to multiply (and consume) uncontrollably, then we are at risk of making ourselves extinct. Then there will be none of us.

Industrialized countries have done a pretty good job at getting us to override the instinct to reproduce uncontrollably.

Expensive housing and expensive college go a long way when combined with decreasing disposable income, stress, and career ambitions. It's almost like we're one global organism responding to our own environmental pressure.