Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 197 posts

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#161

Post by bduerst »

austincheney wrote: post #158
catalogia wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there may be a miscommunication here. I read "The same absurd comparisons also come up when entitled people people try to talk about poverty when it’s clear they have never seen poverty in the US, much less in an economy where people earn less than $5 per day working 5x harder." as meaning you have no sympathy for the plight of poor people in America because people in other countries experience even more seve…

> Seeing poverty in America is as easy as going outside and opening your eyes. That so completely depends upon where you live. My big city of 900,000 people reported their highest measured homeless population ever in 2018 with a sizable jump to about 2000 people. That is tiny compared with many other similar sized cities. Seeing homeless people, like stepping over a drunkard spilled out over a sidewalk, isn’t the sam…

Reminds me of this parable (paraphrased):

A man is standing on a beach after a storm with the tide out, where there are thousands of starfish baking in the sun, slowly dying. The man is picking up the starfish one at a time, and throwing them into the ocean.

A bystander is walking by, and says, "Why are you doing that? There are thousands of starfish and it won't make a difference."

The man picks up another starfish and says, "To this one it matters," and throws it into the ocean.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#162

Post by catalogia »

austincheney wrote: post #158
catalogia wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there may be a miscommunication here. I read "The same absurd comparisons also come up when entitled people people try to talk about poverty when it’s clear they have never seen poverty in the US, much less in an economy where people earn less than $5 per day working 5x harder." as meaning you have no sympathy for the plight of poor people in America because people in other countries experience even more seve…

> Seeing poverty in America is as easy as going outside and opening your eyes. That so completely depends upon where you live. My big city of 900,000 people reported their highest measured homeless population ever in 2018 with a sizable jump to about 2000 people. That is tiny compared with many other similar sized cities. Seeing homeless people, like stepping over a drunkard spilled out over a sidewalk, isn’t the sam…

I mean... there is more to poverty than homelessness. I don't believe that anybody in America has never had the opportunity to witness poverty in America.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#163

Post by koheripbal »

catalogia wrote: post #113
austincheney wrote: post #105

Having lived for some time in a third world country that has real poverty and real day to day security worries, situations like this spring to mind when people completely without optics compare their situations to those in developing nations. Yes, as insanely ignorant as that sounds it happens. People here on HN last week, as one example, were trying to compare their experiences recently protesting to the Arab Spring…

No matter what issue you examine, you can doubtlessly find that somebody somewhere at sometime had it even worse. I think these kind of observations are usually unproductive though; taking this attitude to it's logical absurd conclusion would have you telling people to stop complaining because at least they're not in death camps.

This "somebody somewhere" comparison is callous and dismissive. These are billions of people that live under horrid conditions of tyranny and/or abject poverty.

Hundreds of millions of people lived through the Arab Spring - not "somebody somewhere". Many of them watched their country descend in unprecedented violence that cannot be compared to tear gas and pepper spray.

To them, those are indeed first world problems.

Protesters in Syria were slaughtered with machine gun and anti-aircraft fire. Protesters in Iraq were fired on with machine guns. Protesters in Egypt were killed by snipers from the roof tops, exploded in bombs, and then jailed and quietly executed. Protesters in Libya were massacred by the army - and then by terrorists. Protesters in Iran were shot, arrested, and disappear. AND THEN three of those countries fell into civil war.

As bad as things may seem in the US, they don't even compare to what happens in other countries. How many innocent black Americans were killed by police in any given year? 10? out of 300 million people? ....oh, and the police involved have been arrested and charged?

Please forgive the civilians in Syria who were bombed with nerve gas for not sympathizing - their civil war is still going on - almost 10 years now.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#164

Post by dragonwriter »

koheripbal wrote: post #163
catalogia wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what issue you examine, you can doubtlessly find that somebody somewhere at sometime had it even worse. I think these kind of observations are usually unproductive though; taking this attitude to it's logical absurd conclusion would have you telling people to stop complaining because at least they're not in death camps.

This "somebody somewhere" comparison is callous and dismissive. These are billions of people that live under horrid conditions of tyranny and/or abject poverty. Hundreds of millions of people lived through the Arab Spring - not "somebody somewhere". Many of them watched their country descend in unprecedented violence that cannot be compared to tear gas and pepper spray. To them, those are indeed first world problems.…

> These are major HUGE segments of the world population that lived

If it was literally every other person in human history other than those in the present day United States...

...it still wouldn't have any bearing on discussion of the injustices in the United States. It's nothing more than an irrelevant distraction technique.

(And while it's a valid example of the general issue, no one before you raised immediate issues IN THE US.)

> Please forgive the civilians in Syria who were bombed with nerve gas for not sympathizing

Literally no one is asking for that. There is a difference between suggesting that, e.g., the Syrian experience you describe is irrelevant as a deflection in a discussion among people who are subject to, and responsible-as-citizens-for-their-governments-actions in the present problems in the US and suggesting that those American problems ought to be a concern for the victims of the violence in Syria.

I would suspect most people in the current American protest movement, while gratified by the support that has been shown in numerous other first world and even some developing nations, weren't looking for international attention and don't particularly think that it ought to be an urgent concern for people who are neither subject to nor responsible, even in the sense of the Democratic responsibility of citizens, for it.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#165

Post by triceratops »

Udik wrote: post #57

What strikes me as food for thought is the stupidity and wickedness of the riots. I understand the rage if you own one of the few winning tickets of a lottery and the organization doesn't want to pay out. But in this case they knew that it had to be a mistake, as they all had the winning ticket. Were they really thinking that Pepsi should pay $40k to each and all of them because they all possessed the same identical…

> stupidity and wickedness of the riots.

There was indeed stupidity and wickedness but it started with Pepsi, when they ran an unlicensed lottery and then fucked it up. By advertising the $40k prize for the winning number and then reneging on the prize, Pepsi engaged in false advertising, and breaking a contract. If they ever pulled that in the US they'd face a hefty FTC penalty (or at least would have done at the time; today, who knows?)

> Would they not realize that receiving all almost $20 was a larger collective gain?

You come off as out of touch and insensitive with that comment. A "larger collective gain" means fuck-all to people living in abject poverty. Each of the winners, in their mind, lost $38,980 - more money than they could hope to save up in a lifetime. In poor countries the competition for everything is cutthroat and there's often no collective "national spirit". People will help their friends, neighbors and family and that's about it.

Why don't you tell me how you'd feel if you won a $100 million lotto jackpot (after playing for years) and then 2 days later someone told you "oopsies our bad, here's $200."

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#166

Post by Udik »

triceratops wrote: post #165
Udik wrote: post #57

What strikes me as food for thought is the stupidity and wickedness of the riots. I understand the rage if you own one of the few winning tickets of a lottery and the organization doesn't want to pay out. But in this case they knew that it had to be a mistake, as they all had the winning ticket. Were they really thinking that Pepsi should pay $40k to each and all of them because they all possessed the same identical…

> stupidity and wickedness of the riots. There was indeed stupidity and wickedness but it started with Pepsi, when they ran an unlicensed lottery and then fucked it up . By advertising the $40k prize for the winning number and then reneging on the prize, Pepsi engaged in false advertising, and breaking a contract. If they ever pulled that in the US they'd face a hefty FTC penalty (or at least would have done at the t…

> Each of the winners, in their mind, lost $38,980 - more money than they could hope to save up in a lifetime.

Yes. Then as soon as they meet all the people that have made the exact same win they must realise something is wrong, right?

> Why don't you tell me how you'd feel if you won a $100 million lotto jackpot (after playing for years) and then 2 days later someone told you "oopsies our bad, here's $200."

Sure. I'd feel enraged, but once I'd discovered that everyone else won the same lotto jackpot it would be totally clear it was a mistake and it makes no sense at all to claim it. I'd be happy to have the jackpot divided in equal parts among all those who bought the winning ticket (the alternative being having a new ticket issued for free and a new turn played- so much less chances to gain anything).

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#167

Post by Udik »

netsharc wrote: post #110
Udik wrote: post #57

What strikes me as food for thought is the stupidity and wickedness of the riots. I understand the rage if you own one of the few winning tickets of a lottery and the organization doesn't want to pay out. But in this case they knew that it had to be a mistake, as they all had the winning ticket. Were they really thinking that Pepsi should pay $40k to each and all of them because they all possessed the same identical…

You have to imagine people in poverty and a sum that is not only poverty-ending, but probably allowing you to live in relative luxury, probably allowing you to start a business to have a better source of income. Assuming you're an American not living in a leaky tin-roofed cardboard box in 2020, sure, for you $40,000 is not that sum of money, but in early 1990's Philipphines it probably was...

You can simply multiply that sum by 100 or 1000 and ask yourself how would you react if the same happened to you. In this order:

1) you buy several Pepsi

2) you discover you won 40 million

3) you discover everyone else won 40 million

4) it is explained to you that there was a mistake and you can get 100 dollars as a refund.

5) you start burning cars and throwing bombs together with all the others because each really really wants his 40 million.

Do you think you would go from 4 to 5? Do you think your society would work if it contained a large percentage of people who would go from 4 to 5? That's what I was trying to point out.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#168

Post by catalogia »

koheripbal wrote: post #163
catalogia wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what issue you examine, you can doubtlessly find that somebody somewhere at sometime had it even worse. I think these kind of observations are usually unproductive though; taking this attitude to it's logical absurd conclusion would have you telling people to stop complaining because at least they're not in death camps.

This "somebody somewhere" comparison is callous and dismissive. These are billions of people that live under horrid conditions of tyranny and/or abject poverty. Hundreds of millions of people lived through the Arab Spring - not "somebody somewhere". Many of them watched their country descend in unprecedented violence that cannot be compared to tear gas and pepper spray. To them, those are indeed first world problems.…

Either I have utterly failed to express myself effectively, or this is not a charitable response. I'm not sure which.

I'll try one more time: it should be possible to empathize with the plights of many people, not only the ones who are worst off. Obviously some people have it worse than others, I hope I've made my acknowledgement of that clear. What I don't find productive is telling some people you don't care about their problems because other people have it much worse.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#169

Post by thr0w__4w4y »

petters wrote: post #63

> The number “349” was the $40,000 winning number. > Pepsi had explicitly told its vendor factories not to print this number at all. Sounds dangerous to decide the winning number in advance. Makes it easier for a vendor or someone else to cheat. But I suppose they wanted short numbers.

yeah exactly; if I'm with a vendor factory and hear, "Whatever you do, don't print any 349s!" you can damn well bet I've convinced myself what the winning number is.

Re: Pepsi’s $32B Typo Caused Deadly Riots

#170

Post by netsharc »

Udik wrote: post #167
netsharc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to imagine people in poverty and a sum that is not only poverty-ending, but probably allowing you to live in relative luxury, probably allowing you to start a business to have a better source of income. Assuming you're an American not living in a leaky tin-roofed cardboard box in 2020, sure, for you $40,000 is not that sum of money, but in early 1990's Philipphines it probably was...

You can simply multiply that sum by 100 or 1000 and ask yourself how would you react if the same happened to you. In this order: 1) you buy several Pepsi 2) you discover you won 40 million 3) you discover everyone else won 40 million 4) it is explained to you that there was a mistake and you can get 100 dollars as a refund. 5) you start burning cars and throwing bombs together with all the others because each really…

No you can't multiply it by a number and say it's comparable...

If I don't win 40 million, I'll still have a warm apartment, a well paid job, a car, electronic toys, and a vague plan of a leisure trip to Iceland after this whole pandemic blows over. Once in a while I'll say "Fuck, at one point I thought I was a multi-millionaire, but it was a mistake!", and I'd be able to distract myself by, I don't know, playing Xbox or going out drinking overpriced cocktails with friends.

Meanwhile a lot of the Filipinos probably thought they'd get to no longer live in a cardboard box in a slum, no longer wear ratty clothes, worrying about work and food... And we don't know how many rioted, presumably many cried quietly after having their dreams quashed..

Post reply on HN