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Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

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Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#251

Post by a1369209993 »

ben_w wrote: post #137
cmiles74 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find it hard to be sympathetic to the publishers and authors when they are so over-the-top. Painting the Internet Archive as "vile" and claiming they don't provide any valuable service strikes me as so far from the truth as to be insulting. It feels like they are targeting people who don't really know much about what IA is or what they do... That makes me wonder if it's really about more than IA and the…

I’m writing a novel. I’ve been at it since 2016, partly because project planning is just as hard outside of software and partly because I have a full-time job too. Based on what people like Charlie Stross blog about, and based on the few sales estimates I can find, even if I reach the heady highs of ranking 214th biggest SciFi writer by sales, I will make less than $40k in lifetime sales for four year’s work. As inco…

This has little or nothing to do with any supposed reduction in book sales the Internet Archive or any other library, dead-tree or bittorrent, has caused, and quite a lot to do with publishers screwing authors out of royalties for books they do sell. I have no sympathy any author too stupid to realize that publishers are to blame for their still needing a day job after (for example of Myke Cole) twelve books, two TV shows, and a comic series.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#252

Post by lordlimecat »

Shivetya wrote: post #247
shervinafshar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a IP lawyer here, but I speculate that when and if this lawsuit goes to higher courts, the fact that IA was acting in favour of the public in a national emergency would be in their favor.

That won't fly because it is just as easy to lay claim that ignoring copyright is against the public because it devalues private property rights of which the creator did not assign to the IA.

The argument being put forward here is as if IA just broken into peoples houses and redistributed 3m masks, and tried to justify it because they're doing good.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#253

Post by shervinafshar »

Shivetya wrote: post #247
shervinafshar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a IP lawyer here, but I speculate that when and if this lawsuit goes to higher courts, the fact that IA was acting in favour of the public in a national emergency would be in their favor.

That won't fly because it is just as easy to lay claim that ignoring copyright is against the public because it devalues private property rights of which the creator did not assign to the IA.

Copyright Office mostly agrees with you in their response to an inquiry about IA National Emergency Library by a senator[1].

But there are things in that response to distinguish IA actions and motives from other bête noires of Copyright law (The Pirate Bay, etc.) That would give IA and their supporters something to work with; intents, outcomes, and the limited nature of IA NEL would (hopefully) harness publishers opportunism in the view of the law.

[1]: https://www.copyright.gov/laws/hearings/Sen-Udall-Response-N...

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#255

Post by notatoad »

Good. the internet archive does important work, and i'd hate to see a stupid idea like this put their larger mission at risk. i'm not sure how they ever thought they could get away with giving away other people's property, just because pandemic.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#256

Post by 6510 »

saikia81 wrote: post #105
nordsieck wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to establish a legal precedent, you can't just go to a court and ask them to. Courts only hear "cases and controversies" -- to establish what the law is, you have to get somebody to sue you. > The reason this could bankrupt them is mostly because they don't have a lot of money. Their net assets are only a couple million dollars. They have to raise more than that every year just to keep operating. Are yo…

They can count on support from many. Maybe they have a plan.

We just pay the bill again and go - meh?

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#257

Post by mcguire »

"Many open-Internet activists have been discussing how to back up the archive and make it more resilient for years. The temptation would be to employ a distributed system, such as a blockchain, that would be censorship-resistant and couldn’t be legally shut down."

A blockchain? Oy, vey.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#258

Post by 6510 »

cmiles74 wrote: post #129
raxxorrax wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that perspective is actually more relevant, even if the IA might have made a mistake. But I see only victims in this conflict. Most authors today don't really eat with golden spoons and to have an organisation that helps them get their fair share of the work they put into the books is certainly necessary in the internet age. On the other hand the internet archive is an extremely valuable service. I hope…

Personally, I find it hard to be sympathetic to the publishers and authors when they are so over-the-top. Painting the Internet Archive as "vile" and claiming they don't provide any valuable service strikes me as so far from the truth as to be insulting. It feels like they are targeting people who don't really know much about what IA is or what they do... That makes me wonder if it's really about more than IA and the…

They are targeting their competitor.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#259

Post by ThrustVectoring »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #85
ascorbic wrote: post #10

The publishers should stop now that they've taken them down, but this was grossly irresponsible of the Internet Archive to do this, and they brought it on themselves. Releasing all of these copyrighted books for free hurt authors who rely on royalties to live, and it was inevitable that publishers would sue. I honestly don't understand why they did it. They have a responsibility as custodians of the archive to not pu…

>Releasing all of these copyrighted books for free hurt authors who rely on royalties to live, // That's not at all self-evident, indeed quite likely false. We had a similar discussion here a few times and content/program creators have said they made more money when their product was also available free - people tried it and bought it. That probably only works for content creators who's stuff is good - publishers sti…

> We had a similar discussion here a few times and content/program creators have said they made more money when their product was also available free - people tried it and bought it.

There's a difference between making your work free when most work is non-free and making most work free. When things are generally pay-walled, free content can get extra attention at the expense of paid content. When the expectation is that things are free, well, there isn't any more total attention to go around, so all that changes is that content creators stop being able to charge for their work.

More generally, positional goods exist, so you cannot reliably extrapolate from individual interest to group policy goals. When people want a bigger boat than their neighbors, you cannot subsidize boat-buying until everyone has the best boat on the block.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#260

Post by jedberg »

The more interesting thing here is the "controlled digital lending" test case that will almost certainly come of all of this.

If they somehow prevail on that aspect and set a legal precedent there, that would resolve a lot of issues for a lot of companies.

For example, Netflix could stream every movie ever, as long as they bought enough DVDs for peak demand. Or those companies that would set up 1000 TV antennas in a datacenter and then stream the signal.

I just hope the IA doesn't get CDL shot down because of this and ruin it for everyone.

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