Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

decrypt.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 409 posts

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#241

Post by kick »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #42
themodelplumber wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems more like they thought it was worth a try, for prospective reasons. From that perspective I find it hard to fault them based on the potential reward ratio for opening such knowledge, much of it no longer in stores or libraries at all, to all of society. The Internet Archive is broadly improving on the library concept by leveraging their technology to push for innovation in intersecting areas of law and cultu…

This reward ratio concept that you invented to frame this only accounts for one side of the transaction. For starters, to give something away for free, you have to own it first. There no moral high ground in deciding to give away other people’s things. But if you want to only focus on the potential for public good, then where would you put the “reward ratio” for the authors who’s work was given away by the internet a…

Views like the ones you've expressed here, which frame this as a property issue, will lead more and more to begin to think that intellectual property isn't "property" at all.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#242

Post by Kye »

Joeri wrote: post #235
jariel wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) "virtue of there simply being more unique knowledge at this point." >>>>>>> the IA is not 'knowledge' it's 'information' and most of it is irrelevant to anything - more importantly: All of the important information in the IA is well documented elsewhere . We don't need the IA for much at all. 2) Losing the Library at Alexandria would be like ... This did not happen. >>>>>>> Of course it did! Lucio Russo / "Forgott…

We can’t judge what is important and what is not. This is a job for the future historians in a millenium. What historians really need is accounts of how regular people went about their business, without a filter applied by the one recording that account. The internet archive is an excellent resource for this, but only if it is preserved. Previous ages failed to record what was needed to properly understand that age,…

Seriously. It runs contrary to people's intuition, but things we think of as boring now are what historians will care about more than famous, well-preserved, and widely-replicated materials.

The Stoics were always going to survive into the 21st century, but the graffiti on walls would tell you a lot more about the politics and culture of the time than one well-off scholar's view. All those long-gone personal sites are the graffiti on the wall, and we have a copy of a lot of it.

I learn a lot about things I was only vaguely aware of in the '90s from random magazine clippings/media people like Jason Scott and Anatoly Shashkin share.

https://twitter.com/dosnostalgic

https://twitter.com/textfiles

So much of this is in the Internet Archive. Think of what it means to someone 100 years from now trying to piece together an understanding of this era. How much could you find from just 5-10 years ago without it? Most of those websites are offline, the magazines long gone, the companies absorbed into another with no interest in history.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#243

Post by justincredible »

sukilot wrote: post #194
waheoo wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last i checked rosa parks did something illegal too. Not all laws need to be followed. And just because some people will beleive anything doesnt make this belief any less relevant or important.

No, she didn't! Rosa Parks launched a boycott to protest a bus system that was so racist that even the horrific Jim Crow laws weren't enough for bus drivers who kicked off black people (and police officers who arrested them) who had a legal right to their seats. Other protests broke the law with sit-ins.

I agree with what she did, so it couldn't have been illegal.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#244

Post by chipotle_coyote »

efreak wrote: post #78
ascorbic wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most public libraries have ebook lending, and there are lots of free sources that don't pose an existential threat to the archive

I know only a comparatively small number of people who own library cards. You cannot check out an ebook from the library without a library card. You cannot get a lovely card without physically entering the library. If you did not have a library card when the library closed, or you left it unused until it expired, then you cannot check out ebooks from the public library. Last I checked, there was, I think, 3 public li…

I don't know when you last checked, but Santa Clara, Alameda, Contra Costa, Napa, and Sonoma counties all let you get a "virtual" card to check out ebooks and you can do it online. (I'm not 100% sure about Napa's ebook status, though; I have a Santa Clara county virtual card but am just checking the web sites for other counties!) San Mateo County will mail you a library card. San Francisco County is the only one in the Bay Area that seems to require in-person visits, although they've waived that through July. Sonoma County also seems to coordinate with Mendocino and Lake counties on their online card systems. I won't check the rest of California, but it seems like it's definitely more than three libraries now. :)

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#245

Post by Kim_Bruning »

jariel wrote: post #45
bosswipe wrote: post #7

Losing the Wayback Machine alone as a free resource would be a tragedy of bigger magnitude than the destruction of the Library of Alexandria. It must be saved!

"would be a tragedy of bigger magnitude than the destruction of the Library of Alexandria." No, it would not even be close to that scale.

However, if you say "_New_ Library of Alexandria" it would be pretty much in the ballpark.

http://www.bibalex.org/en/project/details?documentid=283

Mostly because the (New) Library of Alexandria hosts a copy of the Internet Archive.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#247

Post by Shivetya »

shervinafshar wrote: post #204
lordlimecat wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Public libraries got shut down, they opened a replacement And they did it in the most blatantly illegal way possible, with a press release that removed any doubt as to whether the infringement was willful. Brilliant! IA could have, for instance, reached out to local libraries to see if IA could "use" their physical copies for proxies of the digital ones IA was loaning. This would likely have been illegal, but far mo…

Not a IP lawyer here, but I speculate that when and if this lawsuit goes to higher courts, the fact that IA was acting in favour of the public in a national emergency would be in their favor.

That won't fly because it is just as easy to lay claim that ignoring copyright is against the public because it devalues private property rights of which the creator did not assign to the IA.

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#248

Post by a1369209993 »

cmiles74 wrote: post #217
sukilot wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the fallacy of assuming that people would pay for content they can't pirate.

I haven't seen any evidence that the shrinking earnings of authors are related to piracy. From what I've read, publishers are simply retaining more of the profits for themselves and, often, theorizing that piracy is somehow raising their costs yet providing little by way of documentation. https://www.statista.com/topics/3928/reading-habits-in-the-u...

That's what sukilot said: it is a fallacy to assume that people would pay for content that they can't pirate. In actuality, it's the other way around: people pirate content that they can't pay for (either because they have no money (at all or in a currency that the publisher accepts), or because the publish refuses to deliver the content (either at all or in a format they can actully use, ie not DRM-encumbered or otherwise defective)).

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#249

Post by lordlimecat »

shervinafshar wrote: post #204
lordlimecat wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Public libraries got shut down, they opened a replacement And they did it in the most blatantly illegal way possible, with a press release that removed any doubt as to whether the infringement was willful. Brilliant! IA could have, for instance, reached out to local libraries to see if IA could "use" their physical copies for proxies of the digital ones IA was loaning. This would likely have been illegal, but far mo…

Not a IP lawyer here, but I speculate that when and if this lawsuit goes to higher courts, the fact that IA was acting in favour of the public in a national emergency would be in their favor.

The plaintiffs will ask "if this was the case why did you not work with libraries to ensure that copies loaned were backed by physical copies"?

And they will ask "why did you not put forward a good faith effort to work with publishers?"

Then they will ask "why did you not reach out to any legislators or executives to seek an exemption?"

And IA will have no answer other than "because we are a law unto ourselves".

Re: Activists rally to save Internet Archive as lawsuit threatens site

#250

Post by sergeykish »

manigandham wrote: post #208
sergeykish wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly a lot of films (like Transformers and Fast and Furious franchises) cost a lot, yet are incredibly boring. Pulp Fiction, Blade Runner had much smaller budget. And Youtube rocks on modest earnings. It is like AAA vs indie games - Undertale is incredible (as many AAA games are). I do not argue against ownership. Just of ability of big money to hide lack of story. It happens that books live in most open (pa…

That's an entirely different issue. There are still good movies being made but the high budget blockbusters have to appeal to an ever broader audience, often with international releases, so the story is usually just mediocre enough to pass.

Yes, sorry if that was not clear, there are good movies.

I mean can it be that current system is not fair to the customer? We compare ownership with physical object. What if movie is not good? Can I get a refund? File is in perfect condition. Companies spent a lot on advertisement, some products I would consider fraud. Trailers usually the only good parts of the movie. Yet it is aired from every corner.

Part of book store experience is reading. I have a lot of child books, I like them all, we read again and again. When kid grown up he can present them, donate or sell.

In my mind Internet Archive made mistake. Not better than cracking Windows or jailbraking iPhone. These should become niche products, no need to advertise them, better help other communities.

Post reply on HN