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MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

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Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well crap there are pictures of it in a book too now.

What is the name of the software?

It was a simple voxel data viewer I wrote circa 1997? Called pkvox.

It could load, slice, and iso-surface up to about a gig of data with only 128meg of ram. I provided C++ source to write the file format.

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#42
I'm curious (playing devil's advocate): Does this mean that MIT can now do research and not be required to publish this anywhere, not even journals?

And, if somebody from MIT does publish something under this framework, can they claim copyright and disallow any use of the contents of the papers if so convenient? Move away from patents and straight into copyright. We all know how well the US copyright system works, right?

I mean, doesn't Elsevier guarantee that the paper will be 'free-from-copyright' of the original institution/country, to any other research institution part of their network. Like, share the knowledge to those connected.

Do these moves away from Elsevier mean a more open-access, or a more-copyrighted-access to papers? I see no commitment for MIT to relinquish copyright, nor any commitment to make everything open access.

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#43

I honestly don't understand why JSTOR, Elsevier and others like them still need to exist. Top universities should just found a non-profit, per subject, with a single paid facilitator and a single paid editor (per journal) to find peer reviewers and edit the papers into a monthly journal. Modern tech has made it ridiculously easy to type, edit and publish such a thing if the inputs are LaTeX, Word, Markdown files or a…

Oh dear, the burden of organizing peer-review and of consolidating some sort of "quality" stamp (I said "some sort of") is much more expensive than "nothing".

I am not pro-Elsevier, I am just stating a fact.

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#44
It is a rare pleasure to see people taking their principles seriously: "... the MIT Framework is grounded in the conviction that openly sharing research and educational materials is key to the Institute’s mission of advancing knowledge and bringing that knowledge to bear on the world’s greatest challenges".

Take note, corporations: this is how you live a mission statement.

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#45
post #39

I honestly don't understand why JSTOR, Elsevier and others like them still need to exist. Top universities should just found a non-profit, per subject, with a single paid facilitator and a single paid editor (per journal) to find peer reviewers and edit the papers into a monthly journal. Modern tech has made it ridiculously easy to type, edit and publish such a thing if the inputs are LaTeX, Word, Markdown files or a…

I'm an academic. For years, my academic niche has tried to break free from the likes of Springer/Elsevier. Here are the bottlenecks: * There are wonderful "pre-print" servers like arxiv and eprint.iacr.org. However, these do not maintain the "archival quality" document storage that is needed for academic scientific literature. In day-to-day, all researchers use these to stay informed on recent results. But how to gua…

> But how to guarantee that nobody hacks in and figures out how to change a few bytes in one paper that is 10years old?

Trusted timestamping.

https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3161.txt

It also happens to be very widely deployed and supported by well-established companies, because it's an integral part of executable cross-signing. That is, this exists right now.

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#46

I honestly don't understand why JSTOR, Elsevier and others like them still need to exist. Top universities should just found a non-profit, per subject, with a single paid facilitator and a single paid editor (per journal) to find peer reviewers and edit the papers into a monthly journal. Modern tech has made it ridiculously easy to type, edit and publish such a thing if the inputs are LaTeX, Word, Markdown files or a…

Well, despite the parasitic nature of the modern commercial journal world (and originally they did come from more benevolent aims, but got consumed by corporations) -- they do serve an important filtering and quality control mechanism. A 100% open and free journal cannot achieve selectivity without having some judgement and bias applied. One that's hard for an intrepid band of volunteers to recreate without funding a…

> "A 100% open and free journal cannot achieve selectivity without having some judgement and bias applied."

Establishing reputation is the central challenge for a lot of the internet. Sorting spam from mail, sorting useful search results from SEO, sorting legit programs from malware on app stores.

"Let's just have a small handful of people manually review everything" is not a terrible first approach! It is the naive solution, and will work if you don't have to scale. It even worked for search for a couple years.

And you might argue that it's ok for journals to keep doing that because they don't have to scale. They don't have to review, rate, and publish everything good. They can have a very, very tiny output and it's ok.

But there is some cost to rate limiting scientific output.

So I'm surprised there hasn't at least been a good competitor incorporating what we've learned from other domains. It wouldn't be the same, but at least trying to use some things like citation counts and reader behavior for an initial guess at what deserves review.

All the arguments that "we need a small group of professionals curating these" lose a little weight in a replication crisis.

If you really wanted to try this, you might want to go after low hanging fruit. Someone should make a nutritional science journal, using purely algorithmic data to score proposals. Not much to lose there.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/i-fooled-millions-into-thinking-choc...

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is google scholar optimization 101. I doubt it can be considered "fraudulent" at this point.

That's what I do. If I want to say something obvious, I Google for the first citation which says that thing in a way which is readable, understandable, and correct. Honestly, the problem isn't with whom I cite, so much as: 1) Academia deciding to use metrics inappropriately (as well as expecting citations on well-known obvious things). I'm not going to adjust my work style because academics decided to adopt dumb metr…

Actually, it's not the academics who have adopted (or pushed) these metrics. They essentially came with the general trend of trying to make everything measurable (usually pushed by MBAs).

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#48
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is called "FUTON bias" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUTON_bias ).

Some software I wrote got cited in a paper once. They had used it because it was readily available on the net. I didnt think anyone actually noticed.

This seems to be the mentioned paper (program name was in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23489882):

"Robust invisible watermarking of volume data using 3D DCT", doi:10.1109/CGI.2001.934699 , https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3904386_Robust_invi...

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#49
post #39

I honestly don't understand why JSTOR, Elsevier and others like them still need to exist. Top universities should just found a non-profit, per subject, with a single paid facilitator and a single paid editor (per journal) to find peer reviewers and edit the papers into a monthly journal. Modern tech has made it ridiculously easy to type, edit and publish such a thing if the inputs are LaTeX, Word, Markdown files or a…

I'm an academic. For years, my academic niche has tried to break free from the likes of Springer/Elsevier. Here are the bottlenecks: * There are wonderful "pre-print" servers like arxiv and eprint.iacr.org. However, these do not maintain the "archival quality" document storage that is needed for academic scientific literature. In day-to-day, all researchers use these to stay informed on recent results. But how to gua…

> Many academics need publications in prestigious journals with "high impact factors"

It wouldn't surprise me if this is a massive part of the problem. Any new system to replace Elsevier may be perfect in lots of ways, but it doesn't count as prestigious, which means everybody will still want/need to publish with Elsevier. How do you magically grant a new publishing platform this 'prestige'?

Re: MIT Ends Elsevier Negotiations

#50

Here is the MIT Framework for Publisher Contracts: https://libraries.mit.edu/scholarly/publishing/framework/ It requires that: 1. No author will be required to waive any institutional or funder open access policy to publish in any of the publisher’s journals. 2. No author will be required to relinquish copyright, but instead will be provided with options that enable publication while also providing authors with gener…

> What was surprising was the number of institutions which had signed onto the framework - my alma mater included. I'm curious how many of these still have an Elsevier contract. If you ever tried to dig deep into the internals of a large organization, you will notice that they are perfectly capable of managing a set of self-contradictory rules. It is actually an amazing power. At least, this was my experience. For a…

> you will notice that they are perfectly capable of managing a set of self-contradictory rules. It is actually an amazing power.

That's how life is, though—a jumble of rules that don't all agree and aren't all consistent. So you get used to juggling them all, making them work together as well as you can, so you can get your job done and move on.

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