Live data from Hacker News

How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

yuzeh.com

91–100 of 179 posts

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#91
post #4

Alpha Go Zero inspired the development of an open source version, Leela Go Zero which Leela Chess Zero is forked from by the same guy who made Stock Fish. Lots of people contribute what I imagine are amounts of CPU Power/money to the Leela Chess Zero project[1]. Would love to see Alpha Chess vs Leela Chess. [1] https://training.lczero.org/ [edit] I've caused terrible confusion by melding Leela Go and Leela Chess when…

AFAIK Garry Kasparov to this day does computer&human vs. computer&human chess research, and it's far from a solved problem.

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#92
post #23

Our main compute doesn't go towards machine learning, but we do rely heavily on GPU power. I recently had to come up with the figures for us to invest in an expansion of our compute power, and it turned out that buying the machines ourselves would be cheaper than renting them from Google in 3-4 months. We don't run on those fancy V100 cards though, just regular old gaming cards suffice, and I suppose if we bought the…

How Google started out: Run servers from a shack, using commodity PC hardware How modern startups start out: Spend $50,000/month to run hundreds of microservices on a managed Kubernetes cluster

Which of the modern startup founders have gotten into the Stanford PhD program as teenagers? Those people are extremely rare and there is far too much VC floating around to focus only on such talent. Most founders, while still outstanding, are not from that class of person. Also, due to the larger sums of money being thrown around, people can just do those things now and spend their time growing their business instead of optimizing it. In the VC funded environment, optimizing businesses lose out to competitors which grow the fastest.

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#93
post #91
post #4

Alpha Go Zero inspired the development of an open source version, Leela Go Zero which Leela Chess Zero is forked from by the same guy who made Stock Fish. Lots of people contribute what I imagine are amounts of CPU Power/money to the Leela Chess Zero project[1]. Would love to see Alpha Chess vs Leela Chess. [1] https://training.lczero.org/ [edit] I've caused terrible confusion by melding Leela Go and Leela Chess when…

AFAIK Garry Kasparov to this day does computer&human vs. computer&human chess research, and it's far from a solved problem.

Is human&computer better than computer only?

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#94
It’s a shame that this ‘Next big thing’ is the complete opposite of the internet. Instead of opening up the world for anyone to create things, letting small companies compete with large, it is only going to concentrate power with the richest companies and leave small companies unable to get involved.

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#95

It’s a shame that this ‘Next big thing’ is the complete opposite of the internet. Instead of opening up the world for anyone to create things, letting small companies compete with large, it is only going to concentrate power with the richest companies and leave small companies unable to get involved.

“Well sure, AlphaZero looks impressive but I predict that within one hundred years, deep learning systems will be twice as powerful, ten thousand times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them.”

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bipedal walking and running on uneven terrain has been demonstrated years ago - Boston Dynamics has a lot of nice videos; e.g. here's a four year old video on walking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY , here's two year old videos on running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjSohj-Iclc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikxFZZO2sk - perhaps it's debatable if it's "full human level" but it seems sufficient t…

> it seems sufficient to me for most purposes. Current self driving car technology is sufficient for most purposes, except to actually drive on roads. So for those walking robots, can they run or even walk through a crowd without hitting people? A normal 15 year old human can do it, and that is the level you need to be to release it among people.

I'll be impressed when they can finish an orienteering course.

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#97
post #93
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Garry Kasparov to this day does computer&human vs. computer&human chess research, and it's far from a solved problem.

Is human&computer better than computer only?

Not really. It was tried and it turns out that the best strategy for the human is to just do what the computer suggests.

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#98
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article actually addresses that. The precise number is not the point but the ballpark is: "In terms of actual cost to DeepMind (a subsidiary of Google’s parent company) to run the experiment, there are other factors that need to be taken into account, such as researcher salaries, or that the quoted TPU rate probably includes a healthy amount of margin. But for someone outside Google, this number is a good ballpar…

KataGo and Leela Zero and all the other AIs certainly didn't cost that much (the people running them wouldn't have had that much money and resources) and are probably stronger than Alpha Go Zero. I don't think it's at all fair to say this number is a good ballpark estimate of how much it would cost to replicate this experiment . It's wrong as a calculation of Google's costs, it's wrong per the title How much did Alph…

Replicating the experiment would normally mean running the same code for the same length of time, which is what the article measures. If you're using different approaches like KataGo, it's not a replication any more.

How is Leela Zero stronger if it's the same calculations and less compute time?

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#99
post #93
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Garry Kasparov to this day does computer&human vs. computer&human chess research, and it's far from a solved problem.

Is human&computer better than computer only?

Not really, humans barely provide insight (if anything), which chess engines don’t already consider. Deep Blue could evaluate 200 million different moves... per second. And that’s from 1997.

The few and rare times an engine gets funky is usually in end-game positions where the engine can’t seem to find a sacrifice to win the game and will output a current position as drawn. These cases are few and I very much doubt that a human would be able to find these moves in an actual match.

Now if you’re talking about the way the chess engine learns, it can learn in two different ways: without human help (learning completely on its own giving it nothing but the rules which is how AlphaGo works), or with human aid (through chess theory accumulated over centuries of human matches that these engines have built in as part of their evaluations). Things get very interesting.

I’d recommend you to look up a few games between AlphaGo and Stockfish, which embody these two different philosophies and battle it to the teeth and bones. The matches are brilliant. I would say though that it seems like AlphaGo (learning the game entirely through scratch without human help) has seemed to triumph more times than Stockfish and with the nature of these systems, I’d suspect it to continue that trend.

Re: How much did AlphaGo Zero cost? (2018)

#100
post #85
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Here's Boston Dynamic's robot doing Parkour and gymnastics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sBBaNYex3E It's not national level gymnastics but it's better co-ordinated than most humans.

It's not even AI - all the moves are a pre-programmed sequence. That's something Hollywood puppeteers could do 40 years ago...

This is both correct and incorrect.

Boston Dynamics use control-systems style robotic control. This is different to ML-style control where the system learns to perform tasks.

But that's different to "pre-programmed sequence". They don't program the individual servo movements for each movement - instead they give it the motions to perform and the control-systems balance the robot automatically.

(This is what the OP implied by the word "algorithms" anyway right?)

Post reply on HN