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Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

usatoday.com

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Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#141

Post by tedunangst »

JamesBarney wrote: post #71
newacct583 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them? How about: they should be held responsible for the preventable death of this woman in a situation they directly and deliberately created? Is that not the problem? I don't think anyone is demanding a first degree murder conviction here. They didn't walk in with the intent to kill her. But they sure as shit did kill her, and it's all their fau…

Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire? Or are no-knock warrants the bad guy which routinely cause deaths for the sole purpose of keeping some drugs from being flushed down the toilet? Because one of these is very easy to fix and would 100% mean Taylor would still be alive. The other would be super difficult to fix and who knows if it would have saved her life.

Considering they didn't even hit the guy who was shooting at them, I'd say backing out of the apartment would have been a much better strategy.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#142

Post by hef19898 »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #124
Grollicus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon Well, I do. We had a case in Germany a few years back where the police served some kind of no-knock warrant, the guy (a Hells Angel) thought they were from a rival gang, shouted at them and then shot at them. A Policeman died, the guy dropped his gun immediately after police identified themselves. The Case made the news later because the guy got…

That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders. There's no consideration of intention or what information people are acting on - if there's a potentially lethal threat to the policeman, it must be dominated and suppressed. So yes, wi…

In the above case, the killed officer was already dead. Returning fire would have killed the suspect and maybe more officers. Not to safe if you ask me. Identifying themselves as police was the prudent thing, having done so upfront would most likely have saved an officers live.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#143

Post by dillonmckay »

jobigoud wrote: post #110
TomK32 wrote: post #102

What happened to "THIS IS THE POLICE, OPEN UP" along with banging the door? The only situation where I understand a no-knock warrant is like when the police is actually targeting someone's computer and don't want to go through all the hustle of cracking the password.

But they were in plain clothes anyway. Any gangster could knock and announce themselves as being the police.

At least the gangsters would announce themselves, on your scenario.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#144

Post by neuronic »

mlang23 wrote: post #136
Grollicus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon Well, I do. We had a case in Germany a few years back where the police served some kind of no-knock warrant, the guy (a Hells Angel) thought they were from a rival gang, shouted at them and then shot at them. A Policeman died, the guy dropped his gun immediately after police identified themselves. The Case made the news later because the guy got…

The main takeaway here is that there is a difference between Europe and the USA. Death penalty, a military that goes on a shooting expedition every 10 years, no public healthcare, plice that shoot at protesters, you name it.

I think everyone with half a brain knows that the US is very close to a failed state and ready for renewal/reform.

Lack of police training, idiotic judicial system and last but not least a completely broken democracy... the issues run very deep and cases like Breanna Taylor show that.

The police DID commit a home invasion, they were the criminals and murderers. At no point they had the right to shoot back, as Taylors boyfriend had to assume an armed home invasion. And that assumption was true. He acted in justified self-defense and the cops murdered his girlfriend for it.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#145

Post by gpm »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #124
Grollicus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon Well, I do. We had a case in Germany a few years back where the police served some kind of no-knock warrant, the guy (a Hells Angel) thought they were from a rival gang, shouted at them and then shot at them. A Policeman died, the guy dropped his gun immediately after police identified themselves. The Case made the news later because the guy got…

That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders. There's no consideration of intention or what information people are acting on - if there's a potentially lethal threat to the policeman, it must be dominated and suppressed. So yes, wi…

Being trained to break the law does not (legally) justify breaking the law.

I'm not sure if shooting someone in "self defense" who is legally shooting at you is illegal under US law, it's an interesting thought though.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#146

Post by neuronic »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #124
Grollicus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon Well, I do. We had a case in Germany a few years back where the police served some kind of no-knock warrant, the guy (a Hells Angel) thought they were from a rival gang, shouted at them and then shot at them. A Policeman died, the guy dropped his gun immediately after police identified themselves. The Case made the news later because the guy got…

That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders. There's no consideration of intention or what information people are acting on - if there's a potentially lethal threat to the policeman, it must be dominated and suppressed. So yes, wi…

American police aren't trained. It's literally idiots on steroids watching 3 YouTube videos for "training" combined with some shitty version of some martial arts.

They are not capable of solving anything without authority, force and violence. Just stacked with military equipment and tools to escalate anything until a "suspect" breaks - mentally or physically.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#147

Post by throwaway0a5e »

codezero wrote: post #59
yaur wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't believe that anyone thought that having plain-clothed cops serve a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night with no squad cars or body cameras for a case where the suspect was already in custody made sense. It also doesn't seem like they were expecting armed resistance, probably because they knew the suspect was in custody. Instead, I suspect that these are dirty cops who were essentially trying to…

Oh wow. That may be taking it too far, but is there a reason to believe that might be a possible scenario here?

>is there a reason to believe that might be a possible scenario here?

It is not unheard of for drug task forces to augment their official income by robbing drug dealers. I wanna say one of the major cities in CA had a task force that got into trouble for this as did IIRC Newark and Baltimore (pretty sure it was them but not 100%). It's definitely A Thing(TM). There was at least one story of a particularity systemic case that hit HN.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#148

Post by CathedralBorrow »

JamesBarney wrote: post #71
newacct583 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them? How about: they should be held responsible for the preventable death of this woman in a situation they directly and deliberately created? Is that not the problem? I don't think anyone is demanding a first degree murder conviction here. They didn't walk in with the intent to kill her. But they sure as shit did kill her, and it's all their fau…

Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire? Or are no-knock warrants the bad guy which routinely cause deaths for the sole purpose of keeping some drugs from being flushed down the toilet? Because one of these is very easy to fix and would 100% mean Taylor would still be alive. The other would be super difficult to fix and who knows if it would have saved her life.

> Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire?

That's very hard to answer because the cops have censored or lied about most of the report, as well as making claims about knocking and introducing themselves -- holding a no-knock warrant -- which is apparently disputed by witnesses.

But then again I don't think it's very helpful to try to identify the one and only Bad Guy™.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#149

Post by leereeves »

vkou wrote: post #126
leereeves wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News agencies shouldn't report that because the Senator didn't say that. He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors: > Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants. And nowhere in the op-ed did he call for murdering or kill…

> News agencies shouldn't report that because the Senator didn't say that. He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors: Here in Seattle, it wasn't the rioters and looters who were attacked by police, it was mostly peaceful, non-violent protesters. One might even imagine that the two are deliberately conflated.

I don't see how that comment relates to the op-ed. Suppose police in Seattle are deliberately conflating protestors with looters; that doesn't mean the Senator is or the military would. In fact, it sounds like a reason to send someone other than the Seattle police.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#150

Post by hetspookjee »

fourcommas wrote: post #62
e40 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently canceled my NYT subscription over the Tom Cotton op-ed. Really glad I did. WaPo and ProPublica have my money now.

WaPo holds the distinguished title of being the first and only newspaper in the US whose editorial board endorsed the arrest and criminal charging of their own source.

I hold the WaPo in high regard and tend to read it everyday but I missed this entirely, and sounds rather shocking. Could you please source your statement?
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