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Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

usatoday.com

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Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#131

Post by nl »

ciceryadam wrote: post #115
hkai wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for your second point, I've seen an article on CNN the other day that says US kills twice as many people (per 1M arrests) than Australia. It seems like a lot, but then consider that only 5% of people killed by police in the US were unarmed. The other 95% were armed, and most of those cases seem to be actual criminals rather than ordinary people like Breonna Taylor's boyfriend. I'm with you on the American police b…

based on 2015 data it's closer to 30% - https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed

I don't see that on this page. I see "police killed at least 104 unarmed black people in 2015", and "unarmed black people were killed at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015".

So I think that makes around 125-130 unarmed people killed by police. [1] says that there were 1,134 people killed that year by police.

125/1134 = 11%

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-...

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#132

Post by reitanqild »

mistermann wrote: post #99
reitanqild wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN is one of the highest concentrations of intelligence on the planet, and much could be learned from voting patterns of this demographic. Probably correct for what I know. But that doesn't means that all results here are valid. The concentration of intelligence is obvious, but that doesn't mean I don't see sloppy reading and weird logic all the time. Intelligent people also have biases, also read too fast and does…

You are correct. It is not difficult to find at least one single fault in any human being. It seems interesting that a community whose members overwhelmingly work in logical domains, also struggles being consistently logical on an aggregate basis. And not just that, the abstract topic itself is... rather touchy . Might there be something interesting to learn here?

> It seems interesting that a community whose members overwhelmingly work in logical domains, also struggles being consistently logical on an aggregate basis.

The bar to become a member is low, and while comments are scrutinized and can be flagged, votes aren't.

And let me be honest: even I vote for or against topics that I wouldn't write for or against.

I think this is often observed in elections as well were people will give a secret vote to something they agree with even if they aren't ready to face their families about it.

FTR: I think the system tries to mitigate this to some degree. I don't think all votes are created equal here.

> Might there be something interesting to learn here?

Absolutely :-)

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#133

Post by StavrosK »

JamesBarney wrote: post #71
newacct583 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them? How about: they should be held responsible for the preventable death of this woman in a situation they directly and deliberately created? Is that not the problem? I don't think anyone is demanding a first degree murder conviction here. They didn't walk in with the intent to kill her. But they sure as shit did kill her, and it's all their fau…

Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire? Or are no-knock warrants the bad guy which routinely cause deaths for the sole purpose of keeping some drugs from being flushed down the toilet? Because one of these is very easy to fix and would 100% mean Taylor would still be alive. The other would be super difficult to fix and who knows if it would have saved her life.

> the impossible standard of not returning fire

And yet they managed to not return fire all day, until they decided to literally invade an apartment.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#134

Post by zimpenfish »

hkai wrote: post #67
e40 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently canceled my NYT subscription over the Tom Cotton op-ed. Really glad I did. WaPo and ProPublica have my money now.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

> if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

They did publish a chunk of Mein Kampf back in 1941, only adding a single small paragraph of context.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#135

Post by dillonmckay »

pjc50 wrote: post #130
rayiner wrote: post #7

USA Today has the best coverage of this I’ve seen. The NYT coverage of this is awful: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html A key fact is that the police shot Taylor after her boyfriend shot at the police, thinking they were intruders. While he was fully entitled to do that, the NYT doesn’t believe in gun rights so that’s a messy fact. To make the victim seem more sympathetic, the narrative under…

> nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon This is often part of the "rules of engagement" that military personnel are expected to follow; not only because they're expected not to shoot civilians, but also peacekeeping situations where firing on the wrong forces could cause WW3, as well as the very basic check that the target isn't wearing the same uniform as you and shooting in your direction by m…

Blindly, it seems. The neighboring apartment had several bullets enter, as well.

So, zero regard for the safety of anyone.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#136

Post by mlang23 »

Grollicus wrote: post #84
rayiner wrote: post #7

USA Today has the best coverage of this I’ve seen. The NYT coverage of this is awful: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html A key fact is that the police shot Taylor after her boyfriend shot at the police, thinking they were intruders. While he was fully entitled to do that, the NYT doesn’t believe in gun rights so that’s a messy fact. To make the victim seem more sympathetic, the narrative under…

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon Well, I do. We had a case in Germany a few years back where the police served some kind of no-knock warrant, the guy (a Hells Angel) thought they were from a rival gang, shouted at them and then shot at them. A Policeman died, the guy dropped his gun immediately after police identified themselves. The Case made the news later because the guy got…

The main takeaway here is that there is a difference between Europe and the USA.

Death penalty, a military that goes on a shooting expedition every 10 years, no public healthcare, plice that shoot at protesters, you name it.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#137

Post by dillonmckay »

yaur wrote: post #93
codezero wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow. That may be taking it too far, but is there a reason to believe that might be a possible scenario here?

They claimed that they announced themselves which suggests that they didn't know that the warrant they were serving was no-knock. Their shots apparently hit the apartment above. With a breaching entry and an unknown target, random positioning in the horizontal plane may be expected but in the vertical plane it is definitely not. That suggests that they were holstered when they kicked in the door. Further, the gunner…

Wow. I did not realize the other apartment was located above. I thought it was next door.

Just, wow.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#138

Post by pjc50 »

codezero wrote: post #59
yaur wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't believe that anyone thought that having plain-clothed cops serve a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night with no squad cars or body cameras for a case where the suspect was already in custody made sense. It also doesn't seem like they were expecting armed resistance, probably because they knew the suspect was in custody. Instead, I suspect that these are dirty cops who were essentially trying to…

Oh wow. That may be taking it too far, but is there a reason to believe that might be a possible scenario here?

There's the stat that the police take more in civil forfeiture than all burglaries, but that's the "perfectly legal" theft by police. Invisible theft by police - seizing drugs or money and then not registering them as evidence but instead taking themselves - is almost impossible to quantify, since it happens under strong omerta.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#139

Post by throwaway0a5e »

JamesBarney wrote: post #71
newacct583 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them? How about: they should be held responsible for the preventable death of this woman in a situation they directly and deliberately created? Is that not the problem? I don't think anyone is demanding a first degree murder conviction here. They didn't walk in with the intent to kill her. But they sure as shit did kill her, and it's all their fau…

Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire? Or are no-knock warrants the bad guy which routinely cause deaths for the sole purpose of keeping some drugs from being flushed down the toilet? Because one of these is very easy to fix and would 100% mean Taylor would still be alive. The other would be super difficult to fix and who knows if it would have saved her life.

If they unlawfully put themselves in a situation where they felt compelled to return fire then they should be held accountable for whatever damage their bullets do just like any other person would be.

If my convenience store stickup goes sideways and the clerk gets shot I'm responsible. Cops should be held to the same standards as normal people.

We should also get rid of no-knocks but that's just whacking a particular mole. The root cause of the problems America has been having with police is that normal people do not get the same treatment under the law that police do.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#140

Post by dillonmckay »

throwgeorge wrote: post #33
mchusma wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of paid leave has always puzzled me. This would be my choice of punishment if I am ever given a choice.

there was a comment posted by rayiner that was quickly deleted >It’s a Constitutional (and undoubtedly contractual) requirement. Police officers are employed pursuant to a contract. A contractual benefit is considered a property interest that cannot be taken away without “due process.” Hence police officers remain employed (and getting paid) until an investigation establishes they actually did something wrong. Privat…

Don’t get him started on CATV franchises or residential zoning laws.
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