AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA • Hacker News Board

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#51

Post by thwarted » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 4:57 AM UTC

hammock wrote: post #27

getsat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The authors of the Federalist Papers were against a specific enumeration of rights because they feared that those would become the only rights that citizens had. They now seem prescient in retrospect.

The Bill of Rights was horrible for America. It turned the Constitution from something where the people tells the government what it can and can't do, into something where the government tells people what bones they get thrown.

In some sense, the Bill of Rights could be considered a premature optimization. Rather than waste time having the people and the government come to an agreement in an agile way, through multiple iterations, on the things the first 10 amendments cover, they just decided to preempt all that debate and bill-making and bill-overturning and list the things that were off-limits. Didn't turn out that way though.

And like all premature optimizations, maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#52

Post by itistoday » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 4:58 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #4

zmblum wrote: post #2

What about the following paragraph is not clear? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and Warrants shall not be issued, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Am I missing something? Of cour…

That is written for you to learn in 5th grade civics class and feel good about your country and your government. But is not for those printing & spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

I'm not sure why people are upvoting your comment.

Actually, I do know why. It's a depressing disenchantment with government.

They don't understand that government is not going anywhere, and that government can be as good as it can be bad.

The quote zmblum posted is brilliant, and it is an example of what Good Government is capable of. It is not just for your 5th grade civics class. It's for RIGHT NOW. Read the quote, understand and respect it and its authors, and take action. The government is not just them, it's also you, and sitting on the sidelines being cynical is supporting them.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#53

Post by lancefisher » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:00 AM UTC

holdenc wrote: post #46

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #3

This is literally years-old information. I was aware of and hollering about this at people as a highschooler at debate and speech tournaments. Same thing then as now, no one cares, or those that do care don't care enough. Besides, who cares if you have nothing to hide. Right?

In principal it's quite wrong and scary, but in reality I have to believe the government is too incompetent to actually do anything with their mountains of AT&T collected data.

I wouldn't underestimate the competency of the NSA. This wiretapping is frightening, especially if it falls into the wrong hands.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#54

Post by hammock » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:11 AM UTC

thwarted wrote: post #51

hammock wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bill of Rights was horrible for America. It turned the Constitution from something where the people tells the government what it can and can't do, into something where the government tells people what bones they get thrown.

In some sense, the Bill of Rights could be considered a premature optimization. Rather than waste time having the people and the government come to an agreement in an agile way, through multiple iterations, on the things the first 10 amendments cover, they just decided to preempt all that debate and bill-making and bill-overturning and list the things that were off-limits. Didn't turn out that way though. And like al…

The problem with the Bill of Rights is that it refocuses grievances from "where do you, the government derive the power to do such things?" to "what fundamental citizen right is being violated in this case?" Which sounds OK but it's just wrong.

The latter question is relevant in terms of inter-citizen disputes like theft, but in terms of government intervention the former is the appropriate one. Unfortunately it's usually the latter that gets asked.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#55

Post by carussell » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:20 AM UTC

itistoday wrote: post #52

rdtsc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is written for you to learn in 5th grade civics class and feel good about your country and your government. But is not for those printing & spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

I'm not sure why people are upvoting your comment. Actually, I do know why. It's a depressing disenchantment with government. They don't understand that government is not going anywhere, and that government can be as good as it can be bad. The quote zmblum posted is brilliant, and it is an example of what Good Government is capable of. It is not just for your 5th grade civics class. It's for RIGHT NOW. Read the quote…

Tongue-in-cheek.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#56

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:22 AM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #28

Joakal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask him if he or someone ever had an issue with someone with power in a company or government. Then ask what does the person have in arsenal when the people with power have a ton of information combined with power? "Who watches the watchers" argument.

Unfortunately, fear of the "bad guys" out-weighs his fears of the government, and I suspect that is likely to be the case for most people. After all, they have nothing to hide...

I've found that most baby boomers have this mentality. They trust the government to do the right thing.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#57

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:23 AM UTC

akent wrote: post #5

No big surprise here really. So when are we all going to get serious and start using public key cryptography on a mass scale, even if we "don't have anything to hide"?

Well, we have that to the degree most people need it with SSL. Private correspondence doesn't work that way yet because webmail clients don't support it.

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#58

Post by CamperBob » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:23 AM UTC

itistoday wrote: post #52

rdtsc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is written for you to learn in 5th grade civics class and feel good about your country and your government. But is not for those printing & spending hundreds of billions of dollars.

I'm not sure why people are upvoting your comment. Actually, I do know why. It's a depressing disenchantment with government. They don't understand that government is not going anywhere, and that government can be as good as it can be bad. The quote zmblum posted is brilliant, and it is an example of what Good Government is capable of. It is not just for your 5th grade civics class. It's for RIGHT NOW. Read the quote…

They don't understand that government is not going anywhere, and that government can be as good as it can be bad.

No way in hell. Where, in either the future or the history books, is the saintly leader who will counterbalance a Stalin or a Mao?

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#59

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:32 AM UTC

pedalpete wrote: post #44

fingerprinter wrote: post #21

One thing I see people saying on here is that people should care....and I do...but I don't know _what_ to do with it! Can someone show/tell me what I, an average person, can do? It feels a bit overwhelming and things like this point out how powerless we really are. I hope I'm wrong and there are things we can do...I just don't know what they are. EDIT - Asking two more specific questions: 1. What can we do technicall…

Yes to Petition your government, contact your congressperson, and support the EFF. The problem with making yourself 'technically safe' is that it realistically leaves most non-technical people exposed. The only way to 'protect' everybody is to cure the cancer, not just your symptoms.

[deleted]

Re: AT&T has a fiberoptic splitter copying our data to NSA

#60

Post by rosser » Mon, Mar 21, 2011, 5:42 AM UTC

rbranson wrote: post #40

kjksf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, however, the same as government opening and reading all of the mail you send through the post office. And that government cannot do.

That's only even a problem if they target you. Danger comes when they can target everyone simultaneously and use automated means to find those who match their profile as enemies of an agenda.

Isn't that pretty much what they're doing here?