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Ask HN: you want HOW much for the design?

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Re: Ask HN: you want HOW much for the design?

#51
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever since I read a comment by patio11 a few months ago, I've converted completely to buying ready-made themes for WordPress whenever I want to put up a "sales" site. Getting 3 themes at WooThemes will run you about $70. Those three themes each come in several color variations too. That means the next 3 times you decide to throw up a website, it should take almost no work (design-wise). WooThemes is really easy to us…

WordPress themes are not just for sales sites. The "Admin Templates" on Theme Forest [1] offer some great options for B2B applications. [1] http://themeforest.net/category/site-templates/admin-templat...

I posted a stand-alone follow-up post to this comment:

Read: http://geekfactor.charrington.com/2011/03/use-admin-template...

Discuss: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2347559

Re: Ask HN: you want HOW much for the design?

#52
I see a few posts here saying how outrageous a minimum budget of $10,000 is, so I'd like to add some other perspective. To me it sounds about right, depending on what you are asking for.

Of course, we all have very little information about your request for quotes, so we're all just guessing. All we know is that you "need help with the front-end" on a "pretty standard web app", which really could mean anything.

You might need some or all of: - coming soon page, home page, signup page, faq, about-us, policy pages, testimonials, etc - plan descriptions, comparison page - system settings, notification settings, etc - password reset form, new email form - billing updates, payment profiles, billing history - a whole set of email designs - some kind of viral marketing component, like referral rewards - methods to control growth to a level you can handle - a custom front-end for whatever value you provide (the actual app) - a dozen other things specific to the cargo industry - inline notifications - all the up-to-date and greatest design guidelines etc.

You may have provided a well thought-out, detailed RFQ with specs, but if you did not and need your designer to do needs assessments, create a series of unique pages for different functions, cut it up, and code it, then you might be getting a fantastic deal at $10K. If you didn't provide detailed specs, the designers might also think you don't know what you need and may be checking if you are serious before spending a lot of time trying to win a project that will likely need a lot of extra communication and planning work.

I do that when regular people (people who don't follow HN) come to me with great ideas for web apps, like a friend who wanted to create a simpler version of quicken online. My stock quote is $5 million dollars, but of course, that includes the front-end, back-end, client support systems, and marketing components as well.

Seriously though, creating a great custom UI for an admin is hard work, and even the prettiest looking designs might have loads of subtle road blocks to a good user experience, which can be a component towards the success and failure of your startup. Working on a tight budget and/or time-line increases the chances of user roadblocks, while an experienced designer with a history of creating custom solutions for different clients is more likely to create something users will enjoy and want to use. Give them a good working budget so they can fully devote their creative juice to you for a few months, learn your goals, and create the best solution.

Also, a couple of simple pages can make a huge difference in how valuable your application is to your clients or end users. One project I am working on requires a 'simple' admin for adding, editing, and deleting produce for a grocery store. The client asked me to reproduce the design modal he knew and understood from his 10 year old admin (which I created), which is the same thing he asked for and got from the other new designer, who I replaced.

In discussing his business, I found out he spends 3 hours a week maintaining 1,000 items of produce. The thing is, he's also adding 10x the inventory, which turns 3 hours of work a week into 30 hours. The requested design unknowingly required a full-time staff person, which he couldn't afford, which means he wouldn't have met his goal of adding the new inventory. Instead, I spent much more time designing a single page admin that will let him maintain his inventory in a small fraction of the time and all his goals get met - because of the design.

Sites like Themeforest can't make decisions like that, but are a great starting point for UI prettiness. How many design issues are there like that in this project? Nobody really knows know until they interview you, so we don't have a clue if $10,000 is a good deal or not, or if it is not nearly enough.

While they might be priced out of range of some boot-strapping startups, a really good designer brings a great deal of value to your project. If you can afford it, it's worth it.

Good luck on your startup!

John.

Re: Ask HN: you want HOW much for the design?

#53
post #8

I've worked with a lot of designers and have found a dramatic disconnect between the value they provide and the cost of their services. It is staggering. Be sure to check around for services like 99designs.com (I'm sure there are others - try a search on HN too). Also remember that there are tons of graphic designers, at least here in Houston. The same guy being billed out at $140 an hour might also work at the Kinko…

I really like the pay as you go idea. I guess that is agile design outsourcing? I used to attend the graduation portfolio shows at the Art Institute (of Houston, it's a chain), looking for designers that I might work with for web sites. It was depressing for the following reason: On one floor were the graphics arts people, with a stunning visual sense, expressed in physical things like little products, books, magazin…

Hi Lester - good to see you on HN. I'll drop you a line sometime... I still have your card someplace.

Re: Ask HN: you want HOW much for the design?

#54
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WordPress themes are not just for sales sites. The "Admin Templates" on Theme Forest [1] offer some great options for B2B applications. [1] http://themeforest.net/category/site-templates/admin-templat...

The "Admin" templates on Theme Forest are really kind of blowing my mind right now. Every front-end-challenged web app developer on HN should know about this. Preemptively: so what if every app that uses these look the same? They'll all look similarly competent. Most native apps look more alike than different, too. This is crazy awesome. Thanks for showing this to me. PS: if you read the comments on the Adminaca them…

I use these for the guts of AR, too. $15, shaved a month off my schedule, and since it came in eight colors I got one feature bullet for free.

Re: Ask HN: you want HOW much for the design?

#55
post #18

I found a great designer on Dribbble and hired him to produce the front page for my app, just the mockup in AI for about $500. I then sliced/coded this up and used all the custom design elements to make more pages. There's a post on my blog if your interested.

Can you post a link to your blog post?

This might? be his blog: http://andrewseddon.com/
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