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Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

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Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#161

Post by vikramkr »

phkahler wrote: post #116
neilv wrote: post #76

For a professor to use only FLOSS when teaching CS students about software engineering seems entirely appropriate to me, and a good on-principle exercise. Consider the goals of universal accessibility of education, reproducible systems research that can be built upon, allowing students to explore and improve systems, techie obligations to promote privacy and security in information systems, and simply setting an exam…

My approach in all area - work include - is to use FLOSS by default unless I can't for some reason. Usability is one reason, and as a developer it's good to observe the flaws that drive me to commercial software at times. Why would anyone not choose FLOSS by default?

For some industries where the software is doing something mission critical, it's important to have complete control over the software and even more importantly, you need someone to sue

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#162

Post by ryanianian »

fsflover wrote: post #158
ryanianian wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Familiarity and momentum makes even convoluted and unusable software feel more usable (pointing finger at MSOffice).

This is exactly why we need to teach students with free software.

Agreed. But chicken and egg: most big-cos still use the MS suite. If they only know floss suites they'll feel lost at work.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#163

Post by fsflover »

barking wrote: post #157
fsflover wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think so? Purism created its products using crowdfunding, i.e. they sold their devices (and free software on them) before anyting was created.

They're a device maker then

As I mentioned above, they also write free software for their devices. The price includes it.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#164

Post by barking »

vertex-four wrote: post #160
barking wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's nothing to stop someone else letting you write all the code and get paid for the bit you charge for, right. In fact they could work full time on that while you have to spend time doing software updates/maintenance etc.

If I'm not making money off it, I'm going to stop writing it and find something else to do, obviously? Being able to say "I have deep technical knowledge of this domain, proven by the fact that I literally wrote the software and can customise it to your needs" is worth something, unsurprisingly.

How could a programmer of great ability ever become wealthy living by your ethics?

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#165

Post by ghaff »

ryanianian wrote: post #162
fsflover wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why we need to teach students with free software.

Agreed. But chicken and egg: most big-cos still use the MS suite. If they only know floss suites they'll feel lost at work.

It's not the role of most universities to teach a specific word processing program--or even a specific programming language, etc.

And even if someone has only used Libre Office in school, I'd say the school has done a pretty piss poor job in general if the grad can't pick up MS Word (or GSuite etc.) pretty quickly. Companies change the apps they use for specific purposes all the time and employees need to be able to adjust.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#166

Post by vertex-four »

barking wrote: post #164
vertex-four wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not making money off it, I'm going to stop writing it and find something else to do, obviously? Being able to say "I have deep technical knowledge of this domain, proven by the fact that I literally wrote the software and can customise it to your needs" is worth something, unsurprisingly.

How could a programmer of great ability ever become wealthy living by your ethics?

How could an architect of great ability ever become wealthy if they weren’t able to just sell the same building design over and over again with no work for decades? Oh wait, that’s the norm.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#167

Post by dreamcompiler »

chrisseaton wrote: post #141
dreamcompiler wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sussman is not just "a professor at MIT." He's one of the inventors of Scheme and one of the authors of SICP. And perhaps most apropos for this article, one of the founders of the FSF, along with of course RMS.

> Sussman is not just "a professor at MIT." You're the only person who said 'just'! You're arguing against something you said.

My intent was to elaborate on the parent's phrase "For a professor to use only FLOSS when teaching CS students...", not to accuse him/her of ignorance. If my use of the word "just" sounded argumentative, I apologize.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#168

Post by barking »

fsflover wrote: post #163
barking wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're a device maker then

As I mentioned above, they also write free software for their devices. The price includes it.

Manufacturers commonly include software in their products but no one buys a Mercedes for its software.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#169

Post by dreamcompiler »

nanna wrote: post #129

I teach at a world ranking university in the UK which has decided that in order to have a 'standardised student experience' teachers are prohibited from running their own FLOSS setup when there are proprietary contracts in place. Sorry but MS Teams is not designed with teaching in mind. I've been advocating for Big Blue Button and Jitsi but effectively told to shut up. It's infuriating.

You bring up a fascinating point. In many large enterprises -- even those that make money in some aspect of computing -- the centralized IT organization controls everything related to computers. I think we would find it odd if, say, the John Deere Corporation was forced by their "Transportation Support" organization to use Honda ATVs for moving people and goods around their factory campus. Or if Yale Law School was not allowed to purchase books written by their faculty. Or if the Stanford EE department was not allowed to equip their buildings with low-voltage LED lighting they had invented.

And yet we just accept that a leading computer science department at a major university can be forced to use crap enterprise software that's vastly inferior to anything they themselves could have written.

Some of my examples might be hyperbolic. But the power of IT departments to mandate a dumbed-down status quo still seems very weird to me. I believe it's one of the factors that keeps computer science and engineering from making more forward progress.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#170

Post by woofie11 »

Nebasuke wrote: post #144
woofie11 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and MIT became famous for work during the AI Lab days. ... MIT is going down the tubes. ... And people like Jerry (correctly) say MIT would never hire someone like them today.

Would you mind giving some context/source for the third remark? I tried to search for the statement that MIT would not hire someone like Jerry, but I could not find it myself.

It turns out Google isn't as good as talking to people. If you'd like a confirmation, e-mail a one-line question to him:

"Hi. I'm interested in how elite schools hire people. Would MIT hire someone like you (as you were when you were hired) today?"

(1) Please don't reference this conversation. (2) Please keep it short. Jerry's super-approachable, but MIT professors get a ton of cold-calls. 40 words tops. (3) If you are MIT-affiliated, mention that. You'll be more likely to get a response.

Or if you'd like more background, call him on the phone (yes, those exist) and see if he has time for a chat. He'll always find time to talk to MIT students (current and former), but for others, it depends on how busy he is.

Life skill: Cold-call interesting people. You can learn a lot that way.

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