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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#101
post #70
post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

A US President once gave a speech joking about assassinating the Jonas Brothers with a predator drone to protect his daughter from dating them. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/president-obama-tells-joke-jonas-b... (Not singling out that President, but the incident was shocking.)

Considering who were/are them, I'd say even if it was bad joke, still was funny. As a father of a girl, I'd say same joke as well.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#102
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more or less universally recognized that jokes are only funny if they are punching upwards. Someone in a position of power making jokes about using that power against someone with less power is more akin to bullying.

Your manager is not your enemy. Your manager making a joke is not kicking you down, he's trying to breed camaraderie.

This is the mindset that gave Gervais and Merchant plenty of material for The Office. Are you David Brent, by any chance?

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#103

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

If you're a manager, your job is to do things that make you uncomfortable.

Yep, one thing I noticed when I moved into a management role, was that the things that would make you move along as an employee, are the things it's now your job to fix or deal with. Maybe this is obvious, but there's kind of a visceral shift in perception that goes along with it.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#105
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

> have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone?

It can be a good joke if it is immediately obvious that it is a joke.

I would rather work with alright people that make stupid jokes than some of the more formally correct ones who'd mess up my salary month after month, drag me through stupid American-style personal-improvement-programs in hope of finding a firable offense etc. (And no, they didn't find anything, and I had my job until I was ready for something else ;-)

That said I certainly wouldn't recommend that sort of jokes and my guess is the people who come up with those kinds of jokes are mostly exactly the same people who shouldn't try them as it really isn't obvious at all.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#106
The joking dynamic depends a lot on whether we are talking about technical leadership versus line management, a distinction that occurs in some matrix-structured organisations. I.e., where people are grouped into resource teams for admin reasons and are separately deployed to projects. So an individual will generally have at least two people who can ‘tell them what to do’, namely his line manager (who might hassle them to complete training, performance reviews, etc) and the tech lead of the project(s) to which they are assigned.

Before retiring I was a tech lead for multiple projects over three decades, so was used to having a ‘leader’ relationship with many of my colleagues, some of whom were good friends. But for a two year period I took up line management responsibilities for the resource team of grey beards I belonged to. This was much, much more stressful than the tech leading. Not because of having to fire them but because I was now the corporate voice who had to explain why they weren’t getting a good pay rise, again. Most of them knew it was my role and not me so didn’t take it personally but in one case it completely destroyed a friendship with one of my team who was particularly bitter about certain issues.

In terms of ‘joking about firing people’ – my close friends in the group and I evolved a protocol whereby conversation that took place on our regular lunchtime walks was deemed to be ‘normal me’ speaking as opposed to ‘management-me’, and where I could share jokes. The only exception to this stays-in-Vegas rule was with one guy who was a known joker: I made a ‘management sign’ that had ‘No!’ printed on one side and ‘Stop!’ on the other. This was used fairly often and was viewed positively, especially when the individual concerned was being particularly distracting in the open plan office. It also humanised the management role, especially with my friends who knew that I was not a corporate clone.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#107

I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly - It’s easy for technical people promoted to a people management role not to realize that their words now have a significantly greater affect on morale. The author did a good job expanding on situations that are now not funny, but here’s another one that I see all the time: Butts in seats. As a manager, anything you say about the clock, the vacancy ratio of an employees chair…

Yep. And it only gets worse as your scope grows.

There comes a point where you'll say something like "Huh, that looks interesting, I wonder what would happen if X", just because you still have some engineering thinking left in you, and three weeks later you'll get word that somebody spun up a working group to investigate X.

If you ever wondered why manager emails to a large team always look super-formal? We've touched that particular live wire, and would rather not do that again.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#108
This is REALLY good advice. When you become a manager, you suddenly become all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful about peoples' jobs, pay, bonuses, benefits, time off, assignments, promotions, all that stuff.

You're actually not all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful. You're only part of a management team. But you will NEVER convince your direct reports you're not. Even if you just started being a manager today.

Therefore:

* DO NOT JOKE, ever, even once, about anyone's job, pay, bonus, time off, or other terms of employment. Or your own.

* DO NOT MAKE PROMISES about people's pay, etc, unless you ALREADY KNOW you can keep them. Do not EVER say "I will give you a promotion / raise / bonus / award." Only say, "Hey, you got a raise! Good work."

* do not even say "I'll try to get you a raise" because then if you can't deliver, the person will always wonder why you didn't do it. Even if what you said wasn't a promise, it sounds like one.

People pay a lot of attention to things their managers say, and they NEVER FORGET things that threaten them or promise them something. Peoples' terms of employment are an irony-free and snark-free zone.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#109
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

I have witnessed the CEO of a small company joke about firing people. It was embarrassing.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#110
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

Describing a joke out of context can make a person sound very cruel indeed. I've been in situations where someone has made a joke about me dying, for example, and I found it to be funny and light-hearted. But if you strip out the context and say "he made a joke about me being murdered", it sounds far, far more cruel than it really was.

The reason the blog post was written is that jokes that would usually be fine among friends can take on a different tune as soon as the power dynamic changes, and that's not always obvious to the person with the upper hand.

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