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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#91

Post by wobbly_bush »

DecoPerson wrote: post #66

I grew up believing having thick skin was really important. I took this to heart, and now nothing phases me (and I’ve been in a variety of nasty situations that confirmed this). I realize this is not the norm, but I wish it was. Avoiding trigger words and peoples’ sensitivities is frustrating and further complicates complex discussions. I’m not saying we should be robots. I still have feelings. If someone I love show…

> Avoiding trigger words and peoples’ sensitivities is frustrating and further complicates complex discussions

I wonder if that is a result of believing having a thick skin is important and anything otherwise is now found frustrating.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#92

Post by Hamuko »

jdhawk wrote: post #89
gowld wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US President once gave a speech joking about assassinating the Jonas Brothers with a predator drone to protect his daughter from dating them. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/president-obama-tells-joke-jonas-b... (Not singling out that President, but the incident was shocking.)

....at the White House Correspondent's Association Dinner, which is known for bad jokes?

I don't think the issue is that it wasn't recognised as a joke. It was clearly a joke. It's more about what the topic of the joke was.

Think of holocaust jokes.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#93

Post by dvtrn »

Kronen wrote: post #82

This is another example of the trend in the 21st Century, people being so easily offended.

That's really what you took from this? Is it possible in your mind there may be some usefulness from the admonition to new managers in the blog post in treating people with bare minimum decency in not joking about firing them, even if one were to frame it differently, or is this what you've decided is the only possible takeaway here? That people are easily offended?

I'm not offended by the comment, just kind of amused someone went this far out of their way to miss the point.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#94

Post by sudhirj »

gowld wrote: post #70
sudhirj wrote: post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

A US President once gave a speech joking about assassinating the Jonas Brothers with a predator drone to protect his daughter from dating them. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/president-obama-tells-joke-jonas-b... (Not singling out that President, but the incident was shocking.)

Yeah, not funny because Presidents can, and often do, kill people with drone strikes. It would have been funny if he pointed the joke at a hurricane or shook his fist at God while saying it.

If he wanted to make a dad joke he could have said he had a shotgun or would box them or challenge them to a duel or something. That implication of superiority with balance can be funny, like Mike Tyson joking that he was going to kick your ass if dated his kids. Enough of a flex, but the balance is maintained because if you train hard enough or knew enough kung fu maybe you could take him.

Joking about firing people and calling a drone strike on them are not funny if you can actually do it but they can't do it back to you.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#95

Post by wayoutthere »

How about we extend this to sarcasm in general. It’s super easy to not understand when to take sarcasm seriously, especially if you have team members on the autism spectrum. Furthermore, sarcasm is often rooted in negative feelings about yourself or others. It’s just generally a poor communication tool, which is tolerable if you’re a worker making gallows humor with other workers, but way too easily misunderstood if you’re not on the bottom of the hierarchy.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#96

Post by blowfish721 »

gowld wrote: post #52
_gfrc wrote: post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

One of the few memories I have of my old job was my grandmanager saying "leaving early today?" As I passed them in the hall at 5pm.

At my current position it's quite usual for my manager to ask why I'm still at the office when it's 3:30PM on a friday. One of the reasons I'm still working where I am.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#97

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bzb3 wrote: post #20
jkubicek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Cant’t take a joke” is a terrible excuse for making people uncomfortable. People are sensitive, impostor syndrome is extremely common. The people who work for you are always going to be worried about their job at some level. Don’t take advantage of your power to make a joke that is, at best, not funny and at worst incredibly anxiety-inducing.

That's exactly what I said. Sensitive people or people with impostor syndrome are problematic. I think those people are the problem, and not jokey managers. But we can disagree, that's okay. :)

Or people with autism spectrum disorders, or other issues (just being tired, say), who might find the nuance of your joke impossible to gauge?

Your job as a manager, with "sensitive" reportees is not to be a dick and make things uncomfortable for them, it's to help them do the work they're employed for.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#98

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

why-el wrote: post #80
imsofuture wrote: post #21

An experienced CEO joined a mid-sized company that I worked at a few years. His opening line, in his first all hands was a joke about firing the people who were a few minutes late to the call. It was obviously a joke, but you really can't make a worse impression and he was gone within a year.

Are you sure this is not David Brent from The Office?

Or Robert California?

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#100

Post by brmgb »

gowld wrote: post #70
sudhirj wrote: post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

A US President once gave a speech joking about assassinating the Jonas Brothers with a predator drone to protect his daughter from dating them. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/president-obama-tells-joke-jonas-b... (Not singling out that President, but the incident was shocking.)

It's shocking but not because it's punching down on the Jonas brothers. The part making people ill at ease is not Obama as a father talking about murdering famous boys trying to date his daughters.

The actually shocking part is that the president views drone stricks, which is to say extrajudicial murders in foreign countries, so casually he thinks it's appropriate to make jokes about them.

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