After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered • Hacker News Board

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#41

Post by designdesign » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #24

nix23 wrote: post #8

Its terrible how the American system thinks about prison's. Imagine he could do/learn something good in those 10 years, when he was locked away to protect the public (and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public))

> and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public) That's not true. Our prisons should protect the public, rehabilitate prisoners in so far as they can, and, to an appropriate extent, punish. Some people are skittish about the idea of punsihment. But it's abhorrent to our sense of justice that one suffer no consequences after committing a crime. Now in general I think our prisons and sentenci…

I've suffered some significant injustice at the hands of another, and for what it's worth their punishment has provided nothing for me.

My experience has completely reversed my thinking about the way criminals are treated. Punishment compounds loss and has provided nothing to me or society. If prison could effectively protect society while providing rehabilitation I don't think any specific punishment would be necessary.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#42

Post by gorgoiler » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

My constitution gets weaker as the years go by. I had to stop reading after the description of solitary confinement brought on a panic attack.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#43

Post by Arubis » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

gdy wrote: post #34

Arubis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people are skittish about the idea of punsihment. But it's abhorrent to our sense of justice that one suffer no consequences after committing a crime. I suspect this is the majority view, but it’s not universal. I’m pointing this out not to argue with you directly so much as to point out that this may be more _your_ sense of justice than a general rule of human nature.

Just wait until someone you love gets murdered or maimed.

This is illustrative of how having a bias pointed out can be perceived as a threat, and responded to in kind.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#44

Post by minikites » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #24

nix23 wrote: post #8

Its terrible how the American system thinks about prison's. Imagine he could do/learn something good in those 10 years, when he was locked away to protect the public (and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public))

> and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public) That's not true. Our prisons should protect the public, rehabilitate prisoners in so far as they can, and, to an appropriate extent, punish. Some people are skittish about the idea of punsihment. But it's abhorrent to our sense of justice that one suffer no consequences after committing a crime. Now in general I think our prisons and sentenci…

>to an appropriate extent, punish.

What's the overall goal of punishment? We know it's not a deterrent to crime. We know it doesn't help recidivism rates. The only remaining reason I can think of is spite/hate.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#45

Post by bootlooped » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #8

Its terrible how the American system thinks about prison's. Imagine he could do/learn something good in those 10 years, when he was locked away to protect the public (and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public))

Giving prisoners the tools they need to flourish in free society (education, vocational training, mental health and wellbeing) after their sentence is over reduces recidivism, so I think you could put it under the umbrella of protecting the public.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#46

Post by jki275 » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

crazypython wrote: post #36

save_ferris wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my observations of the American public, people generally seem to be fine with the extreme sentences and punishment that the system doles out. We’re completely apathetic towards most criminals (usually unless they happen to be rich & white), without understanding the circumstances that created their situation. Take the Crystal Mason case. She’s a Texas woman of color who voted illegally in the 2016 election and got…

> Now, not knowing what you’re doing is a crime isn’t a legally sound defense argument, but it does raise serious questions about how we view punishment and those we deem should be punished. Isn't it a Mens Rea defense?

Many crimes do not require intent, they're strict liability. Some do.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#47

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #44

JackFr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public) That's not true. Our prisons should protect the public, rehabilitate prisoners in so far as they can, and, to an appropriate extent, punish. Some people are skittish about the idea of punsihment. But it's abhorrent to our sense of justice that one suffer no consequences after committing a crime. Now in general I think our prisons and sentenci…

>to an appropriate extent, punish. What's the overall goal of punishment? We know it's not a deterrent to crime. We know it doesn't help recidivism rates. The only remaining reason I can think of is spite/hate.

Or, a sense of justice. A powerful emotion in people.

Who know how many more criminals there might be, if punishment was off the table? Recidivism doesn't count that. So there's that social pressure too.

Its pretty easy to figure out 'why punishment', if you try.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#48

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #11

sneak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The carceral state in the US is totally out of control. It is entirely common that people are denied human rights in jail/prison, even prior to trial. Effectively no one holds prisons or guards or medical staff in the US to account for these incredibly common and widespread human rights abuses. The parallels with US policing are clear (as is the systemic racism: the system is working exactly as designed). It even hap…

Well its normal that they denied human right's, maybe the most important of it, it's called 'freedom'. But i know what you mean. Having private prisons is also a big NoNo i think, its like every single one state service is corporation driven ;)

This is a misunderstanding of "human rights". Think of them as the fundamental rights that society declared everyone has as a result of being a human.

Unqualified "freedom" is not generally regarded to be a human right, and nowhere does the existence of those rights include the right to not be imprisoned. They do, in most cases, provide the right to a fair trial, and the right to freedom from unlawful imprisonment.

I know this seems like a pedantic point, but it's really important.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#49

Post by pnutjam » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

cnity wrote: post #29

JackFr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and that really should be the only point for prisons (protect the public) That's not true. Our prisons should protect the public, rehabilitate prisoners in so far as they can, and, to an appropriate extent, punish. Some people are skittish about the idea of punsihment. But it's abhorrent to our sense of justice that one suffer no consequences after committing a crime. Now in general I think our prisons and sentenci…

> it's abhorrent to our sense of justice that one suffer no consequences after committing a crime This is interesting, philosophically speaking. Why do you say this is so? To what end is the suffering, purely for the sake of the suffering itself, valuable? If it's at odds with the rehabilitation, which should take precedence?

sounded like more of an observation to me, seems accurate too.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#50

Post by lliilliillii » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

axegon_ wrote: post #37

CalRobert wrote: post #26

This bit at the end was the most interesting to me. "For me, I stepped out into an uncertain future. I don’t really see meaningful human interaction anymore. I see a society that is impossibly distracted by likes and selfies, smartphones, and similar technologies, and I often find it frustrating to find my place in the midst of this new interconnected world simply because I was not there to naturally evolve with it."

There are plenty of people who generally feel the same way and stay away from social media in general(myself included). Which is incredibly odd when you are building things that are aimed at those exact people. A case of "don't use your own supply" I suppose.

The more involved you are with anything to do with data, the less likely you are to use it.

I don't like social media very much because it's created a culture of bullying people into conformity. It's not so much my opinion that data trends predict individuals, as some may argue, but that people are pressured to conform to trends, rewarded when they do, and punished when they do not. This philosophy is deeply entrenched in the language and behaviors of groups, and it's violently prone to manipulation.