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Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

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Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#41

Post by gspr »

heromal wrote: post #28
redwall_hp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities do not exist so businesses can outsource job training. Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end. It's about teaching different ways of thinking, and performing research. Vocational schools exist if you want to be spoonfed how to do something cut-and-dry.

>Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end. Sorry my overly idealistic friend, but as long as every job posting "prefers" (i.e. requires) a BS CS, it's fine to see the pursuit of that BS as a means to an end.

Why? It sounds like a symbiotic relationship still.

Academia trains people for academia, which is an end in itself. Industry happens to like the skillset that people with that training have. This motivates people who do not wish for an academic career to undergo academic training.

Win-win. It doesn't mean that said academic training has to adapt to the whims of industry, or turn into trade school.

Is there maybe room for a less academic higher education system next to the more academic one? Sure. But getting industry to accept that (as in e.g. Germany or Switzerland) is not academia's concern.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#42

Post by igorkraw »

heromal wrote: post #28
redwall_hp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities do not exist so businesses can outsource job training. Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end. It's about teaching different ways of thinking, and performing research. Vocational schools exist if you want to be spoonfed how to do something cut-and-dry.

>Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end. Sorry my overly idealistic friend, but as long as every job posting "prefers" (i.e. requires) a BS CS, it's fine to see the pursuit of that BS as a means to an end.

Sure, but then don't put your entitlement on the university. The university offers you an academic degree, if you want to use that to get a job, play by their rules, or don't go. Free market and all that noise

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#43

Post by marta_morena_24 »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #30

Obviously he is a great (one of the best?) teachers. Having the lecture use free software only, shows he also cares about ethics at his work. I think that makes him a better teacher. Far too few people in CS care about the ethics side as well.

Yeah right, because MIT is such a cheap school, it totally is required to use free software, because that is going to make a difference. Instead, MIT should make sure that students get their software and materials free of charge, not that the material or software itself is free (just because students on scholarships or alike may not have the money). They should use what is best for the students and not what is best to support some ideology.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#44

Post by gspr »

speedgoose wrote: post #27
andi999 wrote: post #2

I am a fan of open software, and also a realist. I think what he did is great. My only concern is that the source code in the book is gpl licensed (and not MIT or better public domain). This means for the student taking the class he technically is not allowed to use anything later in his work life (except of course he works for an open source company, which only a few do, bigger exception if the company uses the soft…

Once Richard Stallman gave me a GPLv3 sticker. I have been contaminated and I can only write GPLv3 since.

Think of all the cells you have grown since then. Consider this a formal written request for your DNA :-)

Yeah, the author of the comment you're replying to is either a troll or has no idea how copyright works.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#45

Post by tester34 »

badsectoracula wrote: post #8
gcatalfamo wrote: post #4

While commendable, I don’t think this approach is useful. I also had a professor that only wanted to use FOSS for its students but the reality is that university should prepare - at least to a certain degree - for work. The radicalization of this approach leads to students that land their first job without knowing how enterprise commercial software work lacking therefore a very useful entry level skill.

I do not think the job of universities is to teach how to use any specific piece of software - be it enterprise, commercial, proprietary, free or not. That software changes and often different between companies, so what should be learned is knowledge that applies regardless of software. And TBH i do not see why a university should provide free (or worse, paid[0]) advertisement material for a commercial product. [0] i…

I don't see anything wrong with advertising (if) actually better software to adults

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#47

Post by Phlogi »

marta_morena_24 wrote: post #43
zelphirkalt wrote: post #30

Obviously he is a great (one of the best?) teachers. Having the lecture use free software only, shows he also cares about ethics at his work. I think that makes him a better teacher. Far too few people in CS care about the ethics side as well.

Yeah right, because MIT is such a cheap school, it totally is required to use free software, because that is going to make a difference. Instead, MIT should make sure that students get their software and materials free of charge, not that the material or software itself is free (just because students on scholarships or alike may not have the money). They should use what is best for the students and not what is best t…

It's not about the price, it's about the freedom I assume. Having free of charge proprietary software for students is a different approach. I wouldn't call it unethical though.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#48

Post by md5person »

gspr wrote: post #38
md5person wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Sussman means free as in freedom, not free as in beer :) (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software)" Sure, but conveniently enough, the software listed in the parent article [0] all happens to be "free as in beer". What examples of "free as in freedom, but we had to pay for it before we could use it" software was used during the course? [0] https://www.gnu.org/education/teaching-my-mit-classes-with-o...

I'm struggling to understand your reasoning. If the author had said "I only drink fair-trade coffee" would you also object if it happens to be the case that the fair-trade coffee is the cheapest type at his local supermarket?

This isn't an accurate analogy, is it?

We're discussing an educational institution with power and authority (MIT), which promotes drinking "free coffee", whilst simultaneously portraying it as somehow morally superior to "coffee one has to pay for" to consume.

Growing and selling coffee takes time, labour and effort - yet none of that is being reflected or accounted for when we choose to not pay for the coffee we consume.

Is this a sustainable approach? Does it promote "choosing the right tool for the job", or does it promote blind idealism ("free is better")? And why does a university, which takes exorbitant tuition fees, not prioritize the best software for the course (over the one that's merely free)?

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#49

Post by dmonitor »

marta_morena_24 wrote: post #43
zelphirkalt wrote: post #30

Obviously he is a great (one of the best?) teachers. Having the lecture use free software only, shows he also cares about ethics at his work. I think that makes him a better teacher. Far too few people in CS care about the ethics side as well.

Yeah right, because MIT is such a cheap school, it totally is required to use free software, because that is going to make a difference. Instead, MIT should make sure that students get their software and materials free of charge, not that the material or software itself is free (just because students on scholarships or alike may not have the money). They should use what is best for the students and not what is best t…

> It made available licenses for various nonfree programs, but I objected to them on grounds of principle.

This was the second sentence of the post

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#50

Post by rgrau »

A bit tangential to the main topic, but I can't wait for that book to be out. IIRC (I read it somewhere??) it's based on his 'Robust Systems' thoughts and experiments.

Total mystery here: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/software-design-flexibility

You can dip your toe here: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/6.945/readings/

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