Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software • Hacker News Board

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#11

Post by mauchter » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:24 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #4

While commendable, I don’t think this approach is useful. I also had a professor that only wanted to use FOSS for its students but the reality is that university should prepare - at least to a certain degree - for work. The radicalization of this approach leads to students that land their first job without knowing how enterprise commercial software work lacking therefore a very useful entry level skill.

You cite "a professor", and this article is also about a singular professor. That implies that this is the exception, not the rule. Students have ample opportunities elsewhere for exposure to "enterprise commercial software".

The delta between Jitsi Meet and Zoom or Teams for video-conferencing is minimal from a user experience perspective. The idea that a CS graduate from MIT would struggle to figure out Zoom or Teams at their first job is laughable.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#12

Post by ajross » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:26 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #4

While commendable, I don’t think this approach is useful. I also had a professor that only wanted to use FOSS for its students but the reality is that university should prepare - at least to a certain degree - for work. The radicalization of this approach leads to students that land their first job without knowing how enterprise commercial software work lacking therefore a very useful entry level skill.

> The radicalization of this approach

Seriously? In 2020, the idea of writing software using free tools is "radical"?

> without knowing how enterprise commercial software work

What software specifically? I mean, you want to write web clients? Almost entirely free tools. Android or ChromeOS drivers? Ditto. Backend cluster deployment paradigms? Free. Docker? Free. Kube? Free.

I mean, it's not like you can't find some worthwhile "enterprise commercial software" out there to buy. But to pretend that the bulk of the most exciting work in software isn't almost entirely done with open source tooling (and has been for more than a decade!) is... just very strange.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#13

Post by noobermin » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:27 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #4

While commendable, I don’t think this approach is useful. I also had a professor that only wanted to use FOSS for its students but the reality is that university should prepare - at least to a certain degree - for work. The radicalization of this approach leads to students that land their first job without knowing how enterprise commercial software work lacking therefore a very useful entry level skill.

Allowing students to suffer through blackboard is like arguing kids will learn the value of bread through starvation.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#14

Post by dependenttypes » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:28 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #4

While commendable, I don’t think this approach is useful. I also had a professor that only wanted to use FOSS for its students but the reality is that university should prepare - at least to a certain degree - for work. The radicalization of this approach leads to students that land their first job without knowing how enterprise commercial software work lacking therefore a very useful entry level skill.

> for work

Please no. It is already difficult to find unis whose undergraduate degrees are not filled with things like java and enterprise-grade programming.

Regardless, universities are not for teaching you to use specific products. This is what manuals are for.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#15

Post by noobermin » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

It honestly would be great for some competition, FOSS or not in the distance learning department. Blackboard and friends are horrendous, and as we know zoom has myriad problems. For a small group meeting I have each week that is now online, I've started using jitsi too.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#16

Post by garmaine » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:32 AM UTC

andi999 wrote: post #2

I am a fan of open software, and also a realist. I think what he did is great. My only concern is that the source code in the book is gpl licensed (and not MIT or better public domain). This means for the student taking the class he technically is not allowed to use anything later in his work life (except of course he works for an open source company, which only a few do, bigger exception if the company uses the soft…

That is not how copyright works.

If it were, then whoever published your CS textbooks would own all the software you’ve ever written. That is clearly not he case.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#17

Post by synergetic » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:44 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #15

It honestly would be great for some competition, FOSS or not in the distance learning department. Blackboard and friends are horrendous, and as we know zoom has myriad problems. For a small group meeting I have each week that is now online, I've started using jitsi too.

Agreed. Moodle (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moodle) is a solid FOSS alternative to BB and is widely used among UK universities.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#18

Post by enjoyyourlife » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:46 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #15

It honestly would be great for some competition, FOSS or not in the distance learning department. Blackboard and friends are horrendous, and as we know zoom has myriad problems. For a small group meeting I have each week that is now online, I've started using jitsi too.

Canvas (https://github.com/instructure/canvas-lms) is open-source

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#19

Post by redwall_hp » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #4

While commendable, I don’t think this approach is useful. I also had a professor that only wanted to use FOSS for its students but the reality is that university should prepare - at least to a certain degree - for work. The radicalization of this approach leads to students that land their first job without knowing how enterprise commercial software work lacking therefore a very useful entry level skill.

Universities do not exist so businesses can outsource job training. Academia is an end in itself, not a means to an end. It's about teaching different ways of thinking, and performing research.

Vocational schools exist if you want to be spoonfed how to do something cut-and-dry.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#20

Post by raister » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 5:55 AM UTC

I will probably get downvoted a lot, and this is more or less pertinent to this, so here's a rant: I am quite sick to make software work these days: someone coded something using Python3.6 and numpy1.18.5 then three years pass. Now, it's Python3.8.9 and the software is incompatible with it, so now I have to download Python3.6.5 (not Python 3.6.1) e try to make things work. But then TLS/SSL was discontinued and I'm getting weird messages. Download the source files, ./configure, make, make install multiple times adding different parameters, add new repositories to apt, try to download the right packages, end up installing the latest Python3.8.9, and other things I don't want. And the software still not works.

Oh boy. Something is got to change in making software.