AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion • Hacker News Board

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#121

Post by tptacek » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:13 PM UTC

uxp wrote: post #108

tptacek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with only two providers of GSM, you already have emerging cartel pricing dynamics. It's not even as good as airlines (which are also somewhat collusively pricied), where you usually have 5-6 choices for any trip. More competition is good, but, from a pragmatic perspective, the loss in competition (such as it is) might not outweigh the gain in efficiency for AT&T and T-Mobile subs.

> But with only two providers of GSM, you already have emerging cartel pricing dynamics. And people already complain about the fact that there are only 2 GSM providers and 2 CDMA providers in the US. Your statement appears to me to be "I don't understand why you are complaining, it's not much worse than what we already have", but people already don't like what we have. This just makes it worse. Between a rock and a h…

We don't have a small number of wireless providers because of some collusive conspiracy. We have a small number of wireless providers because it costs billions of dollars to create nationwide wireless networks in a country the size of the United States.

I completely understand your frustration at having to choose between two goliath companies for wireless access that works when you get off the plane no matter where you fly. But them's the breaks. What you really want isn't some legal action that increases to 3 from 2 our number of options; what you want is a technological improvement to reduce the cost of providing nationwide wireless access. You can, seriously, go work on that and maybe get somewhere.

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#122

Post by jsdalton » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

zavulon wrote: post #69

I guess I don't understand how anti-trust laws work. Didn't they break up "Ma Bell" a few years ago specifically to prevent monopolies? And since then, AT&T bought Cingular, now T-Mobile, and they pretty much have a monopoly on GSM, if not on all mobile phones.

Actually, Cingular Wireless acquired AT&T in 2004, and then opted to convert the Cingular brand to AT&T in 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#123

Post by tptacek » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

nickbp wrote: post #117

tptacek wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... which is probably a good thing, from an efficiency standpoint.

Using that reasoning, so is a dictatorship.

"Dictators are efficient. Therefore, all efficiency is tyranny". Got it! :)

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#124

Post by js2 » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:23 PM UTC

whyenot wrote: post #83

epall wrote: post #8

T-Mobile customer service has consistently been one of the best customer service lines I have ever dealt with. Back when I had a Sidekick, I would routinely end up connected to a Danger employee sitting _at_ Danger HQ, helping me through teething issues on the early Sidekicks. For over five years, they have been extremely polite, helpful, and available. From what I've heard, I won't get this kind of service as an AT&…

This makes me sad. TMobile has the best (least restrictive, least expensive) prepaid plan of all the major carriers. AT&T has one of the worst.

Yep. $100 for 1000 minutes with a 15% bonus on the next refill, 1 year expiration.

For folks who hardly ever use their voice minutes, nothing else even comes close.

Grrr.

(Well, there's Virgin Mobile, but they have almost no network -- I think it's Sprint w/o any roaming onto Verizon.)

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#125

Post by paulschreiber » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:29 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #114

sklnd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The one issue with T-Mobile is it uses the fairly nonstandard 1870 MHz frequency. I don't know of any other carrier that does (anywhere). I think you mean GSM/UMTS band II (PCS), as 1870 is in the uplink portion of PCS (1850–1910MHz). That's a pretty standard frequency in North America. All four major US carriers (ATT, T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint) operate in it (CDMA band class 1 overlaps with UMTS band II), as well…

FWIW, Wind Mobile in Canada also uses AWS. The rest of the Canadian providers match AT&T.

US -> Canada carrier rough equivalency chart

  Bell, Telus, Rogers = AT&T
  Wind Mobile, Mobilicity, Videotron = T-Mobile*
  Public Mobile = Sprint/Verizon
  Bell, Telus (old network) = Sprint/Verizon

* T-Mobile USA also has a legacy 2G/EDGE/GPRS network, whereas Wind et al. do not.

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#126

Post by tzm » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:30 PM UTC

"No matter how many pieces you break it into, it always comes back together"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCp-1hgfxI

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#127

Post by Derbasti » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:34 PM UTC

nerfhammer wrote: post #24

tptacek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we care what the market share is for specific transmission technologies? The overall wireless market is extremely competitive.

20 cent text messages both ways is competitive?

You realize that 40 ct per 160 bytes makes those bytes more expensive than sending the same data to the hubble space telescope?

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#128

Post by ugh » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #97

danielrhodes wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What this guy is saying about the European mobile market is mostly false. In Europe you choose your phone around what carrier you have. It works the same way it does in the US where you have a choice of phones based on what your carrier is offering, the phone is locked to the carrier, and you cannot switch without a penalty. The only difference between US carriers and European ones are that the concept of buying minu…

My experience is limited to Germany, but I had absolutely no problem buying an unlocked Android phone and putting in a prepaid SIM. There are at least a dozen major prepaid providers (resellers of the four networks, but mainly e-plus) offering rather cheap prices (I pay 15 Euro/month for 5GB of data). I can move between carriers at a whim, no contracts.

The majority of people in Germany probably buy subsidized and locked (for the duration of the contract) phones but it is no problem to just walk into your local Best Buy equivalent, buy any phone you like and get your favorite provider to send you a SIM (or buy one directly there). It's not even that much more expensive than getting a subsidized phone (over the lifetime of the contract).

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#129

Post by andreyf » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:39 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #46

dres wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've obviously not been in the mobile handset business. Very, very few handsets are built for both GSM and CDMA, which is a situation that won't change for quite a while (upcoming next-gen LTE handsets should work on all carriers, but we will see about that). At the time of the iPhone deal, T-Mobile and AT&T were Apple's only two real options for deployment (Verizon was a negotiating tactic) -- they wanted to build…

You think Apple might have launched on T-Mobile, the last-place network? Nationwide wireless networks are extraordinarily capital-intensive. Absent a massive technological shift --- which may be coming and which AT&T and Verizon are powerless to stop --- there are always going to be a (1) few (2) very large companies providing cell coverage. It may be more expensive to launch a nationwide wireless network than it is…

Absent a massive technological shift --- which may be coming and which AT&T and Verizon are powerless to stop ...

What are you thinking of?

Re: AT&T to Acquire T-Mobile USA for $39 Billion

#130

Post by Locke1689 » Sun, Mar 20, 2011, 9:41 PM UTC

akgerber wrote: post #70

nerfhammer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people do not own smartphones. So the majority of customers don't need a large upfront investment to get a portable phone.

Smartphones are only getting cheaper. My smartphone is an LG Optimus V, which was $150 without a contract (but it's bound to Virgin Mobile, a prepaid carrier). By my estimation the phone is all-around better than a 3G iPhone. Obviously I probably got the phone somewhere near at-cost (considering how hard the RadioShack employees push you against buying it) but smartphones will be dirt cheap soon enough.

By my estimation the phone is all-around better than a 3G iPhone.

The Optimus V is a late 2010 phone. My iPhone 3G is from 2008 and hasn't been sold by Apple for a full generation. Your comparison doesn't really make sense.