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Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

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Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#211

Post by raydev »

tuna-piano wrote: post #93
bcantrill wrote: post #65

Ugh, this garbage again. AWS came after someone I had hired trying to enforce the same non-compete, under more or less the same circumstances (Washington-based employee, working remote out of California). In the process I learned a bunch about this non-compete, and in particular about Amazon's behavior with respect to it: as of 2012, they had tried to enforce this non-compete "hundreds" of times -- and to the knowled…

It's quite an interesting strategy and for all Amazon's "long-termism", it's a strategy that seems quite short-term focused. It may make their current employees decide not to leave, but it may also lower morale and make future recruits not join. Talk to decision makers deciding which database to buy and see their thoughts about Oracle. Many have been around for decades and have worked for or with the company and refu…

> It may make their current employees decide not to leave, but it may also lower morale and make future recruits not join

Based on several discussions I've had with former coworkers and the numerous discussions on Blind and Reddit, morale may be pretty low already, especially for everyone in non-senior roles. Seems to be common knowledge that Amazon has a PIP quota, and people are terrified of it.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#212

Post by AnthonyMouse »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #173
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The standard argument is that you want to incentivize employers to train employees. Charge tuition for training and offer "student loans" with no payments or interest while you're working for the company which are forgiven if you stay for five years or whatever. Then if somebody wants to poach you right away, that's fine, they can just pay off your training loan.

This sounds like the most American solution I've ever heard. Incentivize employers to train people by charging employees money for training and letting them pay off their debt by working?

It's exactly the same system the government uses for teachers.

You could also just forget about the loan forgiveness, charge "tuition" unconditionally and then pay more to make up for it.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#213

Post by toomuchtodo »

saagarjha wrote: post #103
toomuchtodo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t be a fraction. Full comp. That’s what you were worth to them, that’s what you’re worth to not go somewhere else.

What if you’re entertaining an offer that doubles your pay?

Lots of nuance, but that’s a legitimate comp floor depending on the garden leave requirement, the legitimacy of the offer, etc.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#214

Post by phonebanshee »

jonstewart wrote: post #60

Noncompetes writ large are terrible policy. However, I do think at a given level of seniority/responsibility, they’re reasonable, subject to the usual limitations of time and place. He worked for AWS for ~18 months and then shopped himself to a direct competitor.

That reasonable level is certainly nothing below C level. Bezos, sure. Some VP at AWS? No.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#215

Post by lance_klusener »

wegs wrote: post #179
ineedasername wrote: post #46

This makes me think Amazon it starting to worry a bit more about Google Cloud. Have they been gaining a lot on Amazon recently?

I would never, ever, ever use Google Cloud for anything other than education (e.g. students working on the free tiers). Google's general culture is to randomly kill partners' businesses with automated algorithms, and then not do anything about it unless it explodes on social media. That includes multi-million dollar partners sometimes. I'd work for Google, but I wouldn't use their systems outside of Google. I wouldn'…

After working for Google for short duration, i second this opinion.

The engineers simply want to do cool complicated things. They dont give a damn about enterprise world, requirements, and deadlines.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#216

Post by cnst »

twblalock wrote: post #88
jedberg wrote: post #37

You know you're cool when you need a lawyer to change jobs. I think it would be reasonable to allow non-competes, however, the company should have to keep paying you your full compensation (salary, stock, bonuses, etc) for as long as they keep you from being employed. Sure, give the old employer veto power for a new job as long as they keep paying them for the lockout period.

The tech industry in California does just fine without noncompetes. In fact, lack of noncompetes is probably one of the biggest reasons Silicon Valley was able to take off in the 1950s-60s when people were constantly leaving their jobs to start new chip companies, starting with the original "traitorous 8" who founded Fairchild Semiconductor. There just aren't good arguments for noncompetes. People often bring up trad…

> Look at Anthony Levandowski as a high-profile example of someone who stole trade secrets in California and got nailed.

I'm reading his Wikipedia page:

> While working at Google, Levandowski established other companies as side projects,[17] including 510 Systems and Anthony's Robots, which were later bought by Google.[18]

tl;dr: he certainly has some balls! Any idea why he even left Google? It sounds like they paid him a total comp of some 120 mil, and he worked there for just 9 years, that's an average of 13 mil a year, not small change by any measure (although I guess that might include the price they've paid for the companies he founded).

I guess he wanted them to keep buying his new companies again and again?

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#217

Post by pookeh »

kube-system wrote: post #185
pookeh wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you and everyone else who has to write these legal replies can open source these letters so that the process of going up against these large enterprises doesn't sound so intimidating.

If you’re going up against a behemoth like Amazon, the last thing you want to do is copy someone else’s letter. There are too many important variables that can completely change the situation which are not immediately apparent unless you are already familiar the law. To decrease the intimidation, you’re much better off simply calling someone who already understand the nuances of the particular law which governs your…

While it's most definitely true that most people who want to fight back will get legal counsel, I am talking more about giving faith to fight to those who yield at the sight of the first letter.

If your experiences were more made more public, as to the exact process, people would be less scared about beginning their own process of fighting back.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#218

Post by Thorrez »

clarry wrote: post #161
Thorrez wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds abusable. You get some company (possibly owned by a friend of yours) to offer you a massive salary, then your original company has to pay that massive salary for 3 months or whatever. Then as soon as you start at the new company, they fire you.

That sounds like a feature to me. Noncompetes are terrible, and you should be prepared to pay out of your nose if you want to keep an employee off the market. As long as you're not forced to pay that money, it's all good. It just means that the employee can actually switch jobs immediately (for a better pay or not) unless you're willing to pay them however much they're willing to stay out of the market for. Say I mak…

Ok, so what you're saying is you want the employee to be able to optionally enter a non-compete at quitting time at a price the employee negotiates to, as long as that price is at least the employee's previous salary. That sounds like a reasonable proposal.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#219

Post by john4532452 »

bcantrill wrote: post #65

Ugh, this garbage again. AWS came after someone I had hired trying to enforce the same non-compete, under more or less the same circumstances (Washington-based employee, working remote out of California). In the process I learned a bunch about this non-compete, and in particular about Amazon's behavior with respect to it: as of 2012, they had tried to enforce this non-compete "hundreds" of times -- and to the knowled…

Interesting. Consider sharing the letter's or emails for our amusement and education. Thanks

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#220

Post by megous »

chii wrote: post #181
radioheads wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's non-compete was the deciding factor for me not to join the company. I went through all steps of the recruitment process, but bailed out after receiving the offer. I've had a chat with the hiring contact and I did tell them that I was concerned about the NCA, but they simply waived those away telling me "it's not a big deal". Funnily, even though they were asking if they could change something in the offer to…

> Amazon's non-compete was the deciding factor for me not to join the company. i would ask for, in advance of signing the non-compete (that lasts for X years) the equivalent of X year's of salary. I'm sure there's room to negotiate this so that the company has to pay out the approximate cost of a non-compete.

They say in the contract that this is already included in the pay offer.
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