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Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

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Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#11

Post by mjlawson »

runawaybottle wrote: post #8
salawat wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you cannot accept contrition when it comes, even if too late for your tastes, you're just as bad as those you detest, and complicit in perpetuating the same cycle of sin. If you want to lay claim to the moral high ground, you still have to actually act as one that must that inhabits it. Not merely abstain from the extrema of behavior of those you deem lessers through their actions. It's refreshing to at least have…

My critique is mostly tactical, as in, I am literally saying ‘we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight’. This is something that can happen after egregious patterns over time. It is a valid consequence. There’s almost nothing they have to lend to the debate anymore, those opportunities existed for ages. We’ll fix this without them. My stance on this is as valid as their need to have a say.…

Tactically, I disagree with you. You are not the target demographic. When you speak of "we," you do not speak for me, and I'd argue that you don't speak for many people who may find value in this post.

Ethically, I also disagree with you. There must be a path back from misconduct in order for us to incentivize change. If people who turn in their badges because of a change of heart, who leave their clan only to be told that they're not welcome, why should they?

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#12

Post by mthoms »

runawaybottle wrote: post #8
salawat wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you cannot accept contrition when it comes, even if too late for your tastes, you're just as bad as those you detest, and complicit in perpetuating the same cycle of sin. If you want to lay claim to the moral high ground, you still have to actually act as one that must that inhabits it. Not merely abstain from the extrema of behavior of those you deem lessers through their actions. It's refreshing to at least have…

My critique is mostly tactical, as in, I am literally saying ‘we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight’. This is something that can happen after egregious patterns over time. It is a valid consequence. There’s almost nothing they have to lend to the debate anymore, those opportunities existed for ages. We’ll fix this without them. My stance on this is as valid as their need to have a say.…

>we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight

I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows.

>If this stance is a problem that ails the world, that’s fine, it a better problem than what comes with whatever police have to express at this point.

I feel like I read an entirely different piece than you did... the author is not a police officer. He's a former police officer who seems to have genuinely come to hate the profession as much as anybody.

Edit: To clarify, I agree with the notion that the system is broken. Which is why we absolutely should be listening to (former) cops who acknowledge its failures.

That is, assuming this post is legit of course. I'm inclined to think it is, but in this day and age who knows.

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#13

Post by cosmodisk »

I am a law abiding citizen and only had a handful of situations when I had to deal with police and all of them were absolutely awful: 1) found a wallet with some documents,cards,etc. Went to the police station just to be told they don't have facilities to store such items and suggested to destroy the cards,as the person would have changed them all anyway. When I visited the same station second time, I noticed an entire safe with a massive label saying 'lost items'.. 2) My bag got stolen just outside an office building. Went to the police to report it just to be told that maybe the street cleaner swept it away. Told him that it all happened in front of a CCTV,so it'd be quite easy to figure out who did it.Came up with zillions of excuses. Ended up going to the office building and talking to the security guy myself.Turns out they have a dummy camera outside,even showed the internal coverage on his screens. 3) Customer went bananas and threatened (over the phone) to kill everybody in the office, put bombs,etc. Had to report to the police. The whole thing lasted two hours.The policewoman was like: you know, people make jokes, sometimes they say things they don't mean,etc. So why do you want to report it,etc.. Eventually she took all the details and said: well,you know,if he tries this again, or if he shows up at the office, here's the case reference, call on this number,give the case ref and we'll update the case with new info.Yes,sure,I was thinking, a guy shows up with a gun at my office,I try to escape and call police while I run: 'oh hi officer,I have an update on a case.Yes,I do have a case reference.. The experiences of some friends are usually much worse.

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#14

Post by thephyber »

kemitchell wrote: post #9

Unverified. Anonymous. Single-post account. I really, really want to read and hear candid views from California police officers. But I can't take this in and let it play out on my biases in this form. I definitely can't use it to persuade anyone else, so I don't want to be persuaded by it, consciously or otherwise. Perhaps it's entirely true and the author found it cathartic to read and publish.

Michael Wood Jr.[1] was a former marine, who later became an LEO in Baltimore, then later quit and told his story around 2015. He has written a book, done tons of interviews (including a Joe Rogan), and spoken up about how corrupt he believes his former department to be.

Of course Baltimore might be an outlier (very urban and high crime), but it's a data point from the perspective of an articulate person.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33293421

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#15

Post by shadowprofile77 »

>It’s a time that I acted as a violent agent of capitalism and white supremacy.

With this he lost me a bit on trustworthiness. What the hell does capitalism have to do with thuggish policing? Many European states with generally decent cops are quite capitalist (not to mention Canada just to the north of the U.S) and many socialist/communist states were famous for the brutality of their police, just as are some essentially "capitalist" countries. The narrative of capitalism somehow being the cause of police brutality needs to be split up as the ideological nonsense that it is.

I don't even think white supremacy so specifically defined is a major issue here. Racism definitely exists in the police forces of the U.S but it's also often black or Latino or Asian cops who are just as heavy handed as their white companions.

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#16

Post by Melting_Harps »

Waterluvian wrote: post #5
aspenmayer wrote: post #2

'We used to have informal contests for who could cite or arrest someone for the weirdest law. DUI on a bicycle, non-regulation number of brooms on your tow truck (27700(a)(1) of the California Vehicle Code)… shit like that. For me, police work was a logic puzzle for arresting people, regardless of their actual threat to the community. As ashamed as I am to admit it, it needs to be said: stripping people of their free…

I remember bullying when I was a kid. It can be intoxicating. Seems like many or most American police forces are just “being a bully as a profession.”

> I remember bullying when I was a kid. It can be intoxicating. Seems like many or most American police forces are just “being a bully as a profession.”

It was clear for anyone who has had to deal with LEO to see that they openly vett for those qualities seen in grade-school bullies in their hiring: low IQ, poor academic performance, often troubled and broken home life, possible mental defects that lead to violent tendencies and a propensity for intimidation.

I'd say that's quite accurate, most people here have had a very skewed perception of Police as some sort of misrepresented entity and only are now starting to see just how systemic it is. Seeing them shot journalists, tear gas peaceful people, and use excessive force with compliant citizens is nothing but the norm.

But, we've been here before and the pressure needs to be applied to PDs all over the US that this will not be tolerated any longer. Some did give into protesters, but that is not enough in my opinion.

> I find the post hard to believe. There's zero evidence any of this is real.

Police budgets need to be slashed until they comply, which means they lose their pensions without meeting very clear defined benchmarks and officers who have records for misconduct need to be tried for their crimes as any civilian would, instead of just using the same tired 'bad apple' apologist narrative like the one above.

The fact that we allowed them to be Militarized should be seen for the stark and immense folly of what happens to a Society that becomes apathetic and desensitized to perpetual erosion on Civil Liberties and Law itself; I still can't fathom who the hell anyone thought Civil Asset Forfeiture was anything but a State Sanctioned shake-down/extortion racket on the populace, because even if you are proven to be innocent the State doesn't have to return the stolen property, and as some exposes revealed [1] they often used it for their own personal largess.

And this is typically seen if you have ever gone to court, or jury duty, there will be a litany of cases you'll hear about dismissed cases needing to appeal for the money or property taken from them upon detainment or arrest. Its sickening, because even if it is dismissed you still have to pay them for the duration of your arrest, and then to have the records of the arrest/detainment be removed, as well as have any DNA records expunged from the records.

This entire system has to be rebuilt, it simply doesn't serve the People who fund it. And most will never realize that until its too late and they found themselves marred by the very system they condoned.

1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/...

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#17

Post by Melting_Harps »

mthoms wrote: post #12
runawaybottle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My critique is mostly tactical, as in, I am literally saying ‘we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight’. This is something that can happen after egregious patterns over time. It is a valid consequence. There’s almost nothing they have to lend to the debate anymore, those opportunities existed for ages. We’ll fix this without them. My stance on this is as valid as their need to have a say.…

>we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows. >If this stance is a problem that ails the world, that’s fine, it a better problem than what comes with whatever police have to express at this point. I feel li…

> I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows.

Then its clear you have been the fortunate few who have never had to be subjected to the perverse legal system in the US, or spent any time in low income areas where those tactics are 'business as usual' in what is referred to as policing. This is the norm, shows like The Wire or even Treme (both made by the same director) are just as much documentaries and exposes as they are entertainment. The latter skewing into some sort of misery porn.

And to be honest, given this is Hacker News, that doesn't surprise me. I just wonder if it ever occurred to you what the plight of those immense amount of homeless people is, and what happens to them when they're no longer in sight?

> I feel like I read an entirely different piece than you did... the author is not a police officer. He's a former police officer who seems to have genuinely come to hate the profession as much as anybody.

Again, proving the point that this is not something that has only just occurred out of no-where, but is seemingly systemic in the very system we're discussing. Again, no one involved with any activism is surprised by what just occurred with Police, we've all seen it up close and been subject to it, its what you understand going into them.

What was remarkable was how surprised the rest of you were towards them, and how often people are still quick to rationalize their behaviour. This is what authoritarian regimes do, they bolster the police to enforce political decree, not Law. Look at Hong Kong, its way more pervasive than you think and it stems from the same thing.

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#18

Post by wand3r »

> I don’t want to center the conversation on myself and my big salty boo-hoo feelings about my bad choices. It’s a toxic white impulse to see atrocities and think “How can I make this about me?”

I just don’t buy this. I think this is not written by a cop at all. Such weird characterizations and worded with a of political ideology. It goes on and on. I can’t tell if it’s trolling or if someone used a bunch of stories and known tactics to create a composite character. Especially an account with little else contributed. Especially on Medium which is an extremely progressive haven. I just think this is bullshit but would probably be accurate to some cops lived experience.

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#19

Post by _bxg1 »

wand3r wrote: post #18

> I don’t want to center the conversation on myself and my big salty boo-hoo feelings about my bad choices. It’s a toxic white impulse to see atrocities and think “How can I make this about me?” I just don’t buy this. I think this is not written by a cop at all. Such weird characterizations and worded with a of political ideology. It goes on and on. I can’t tell if it’s trolling or if someone used a bunch of stories…

Yeah, without even reading it this set off a number of red flags for me. If this person is real, they should submit their story to a journalist at a major publication who can verify their identity without making it public.

Re: Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop

#20

Post by mthoms »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #15

>It’s a time that I acted as a violent agent of capitalism and white supremacy. With this he lost me a bit on trustworthiness. What the hell does capitalism have to do with thuggish policing? Many European states with generally decent cops are quite capitalist (not to mention Canada just to the north of the U.S) and many socialist/communist states were famous for the brutality of their police, just as are some essent…

Capitalism is not binary - the countries you mentioned are predominantly capitalist but have more robust social safety nets for people in need. They also (generally) don't have things like civil forfeiture, for-profit prisons, "cash" bail and corporate control of politicians by "donation". All are aspects of capitalism taken to the extreme (IMHO).

I agree it was suspect wording though. It would have served the author better to focus on the vast income equality that exists in the US "version" of capitalism.

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