Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#21

Post by darrmit » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #16

ccmcarey wrote: post #10

Interesting. I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer as otherwise this kills every application available for macos right now. I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos (though I imagine they intend to) by restricting applications to only being available from the app store. That would set a terrible precedent for personal computing.

> I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer Just like they did with the mk86->ppc transition, just like they did with the ppc->x86 transition. > I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos Let's not confuse moving Macs to ARM processors with turning Macs into iOS devices. Apple has always treated the OS families differently and will continue to do so because they know more than anyb…

> will continue to do so because they know more than anybody that they meet different needs

Will they, though? Because Catalina seems like a giant step in the wrong direction if you’re thinking they’re acknowledging the developer - or even power user - need. Seems to me they’ve doubled down on the iOS approach to macOS.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#22

Post by ladberg » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #5

Time to urgently make sure your favourite backend is generating decent AArch64 code and you app is compatible with a weak memory model...

The memory model of the ISA != the memory model of your code. C has a memory model and any correct C code is compiled to the correct ARM assembly. It's only really an issue if you are translating over x86 assembly, and then you probably have lots of other issues to worry about.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#23

Post by Kovah » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

ccmcarey wrote: post #10

Interesting. I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer as otherwise this kills every application available for macos right now. I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos (though I imagine they intend to) by restricting applications to only being available from the app store. That would set a terrible precedent for personal computing.

On the one side, locking down the Mac even more would be the worst idea Apple could have because this would push even more users out of their system. On the other side, looking back at the past few years, it is quite possible that they do so. The recent changes in both their OS and hardware indicate that they absolutely don't care about their pro users.

Hard to predict which path they choose, but I try to stay positive and assume that they have at least one manager capable of thinking rational and in favor of the pro users.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#24

Post by pathartl » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

It's fine that Apple is moving to ARM. It's not okay that this is going to be a proprietary, locked down CPU. T2 has shown that Apple customers no longer own their hardware.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#25

Post by slantyyz » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

ccmcarey wrote: post #10

Interesting. I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer as otherwise this kills every application available for macos right now. I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos (though I imagine they intend to) by restricting applications to only being available from the app store. That would set a terrible precedent for personal computing.

I would guess that they'd target these to light usage consumers first, i.e., the people who are somewhere in that weird place between ipads (but not pro) and macbook airs.

I tend to think that Safari, iPhoto, iMovie iWork, Mail, Calendar and maybe Office support (initially) would be more than enough for that segment of users.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#26

Post by mullingitover » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

kitotik wrote: post #8

niahmiah wrote: post #7

what does this mean for running docker containers on macos?

Sounds like a “pro” use case.

> The shift to ARM will eventually include the entire Mac lineup, Bloomberg reports.

Much like Apple turned Final Cut Pro into iMovie Pro, this is looking like every Mac Pro will turn into an iPhone Pro. I could be mistaken, maybe they'll figure out some way of handling x86 with real hardware, but if not this is a massive gift to Microsoft.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#27

Post by john_alan » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #16

ccmcarey wrote: post #10

Interesting. I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer as otherwise this kills every application available for macos right now. I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos (though I imagine they intend to) by restricting applications to only being available from the app store. That would set a terrible precedent for personal computing.

> I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer Just like they did with the mk86->ppc transition, just like they did with the ppc->x86 transition. > I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos Let's not confuse moving Macs to ARM processors with turning Macs into iOS devices. Apple has always treated the OS families differently and will continue to do so because they know more than anyb…

Exactly. The exec team have confirmed that including Schiller in recent interviews.

macOS is for everything, including Dev. They need that for the ecosystem. Look at the new Mac Pro ffs.

Can’t most apps just recompile to support new chip? We don’t need fat binaries right?

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#28

Post by dan-robertson » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

This seems to be the source for the verge article: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-09/apple-pla...

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#29

Post by TechBro8615 » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

niahmiah wrote: post #7

what does this mean for running docker containers on macos?

Docker containers on macos have such bad performance that I've given up and moved to remote development with VSCode. The killer for me was the innumerable bugs related to bind mounts causing 99% CPU usage. It just wasn't worth the trouble. I'm much happier now with a remote dev box. Really the kudos belongs to VSCode; remote development is implemented so well that I hardly even realize I'm using a different machine.

Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month

#30

Post by trthomps » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

ccmcarey wrote: post #10

Interesting. I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer as otherwise this kills every application available for macos right now. I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos (though I imagine they intend to) by restricting applications to only being available from the app store. That would set a terrible precedent for personal computing.

Honestly as a dev, this would make life a lot easier for a lot of engineers. People who care about openness will still have Linux and it's variants. The general population does not need that level of flexibility and just adds to the cost of developing / managing software. Web browsers wouldn't have taken off if writing thick apps and distributing them for Windows/MacOS was as easy to support as writing an iOS/Android app is today.