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The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

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Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#21

Post by wolco »

ladberg wrote: post #4
downerending wrote: post #2

The need for policing is not going to disappear. If we don't have trained professionals, we'll have untrained amateurs. Doubt that will be an improvement.

"Defund the police" doesn't mean taking away all police. It just means reducing funding and reducing responsibilities of the police to avoid them becoming a catch-all for any civil issue.

What it really means is taking a public sector job and moving it to the private sector.

Private police forces employed by the rich will maintain order on private property. The poor will be less protected.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#22

Post by SkyBelow »

One idea I've seen is the idea that a dollar of funding spent elsewhere can reduce crime more than a dollar of funding spent on policing. This isn't true for every dollar, as funding often comes with diminishing returns. For example, $400k away from police but instead spent in youth programs will give kids more ways to engage in the activities which reduce their likelihood of being engage in petty crimes due to boredom.

As for those demanding full defunding, I doubt they actually want that. Demanding exactly what they want would be a bit like walking into a salary negotiation and starting with the salary you are willing to accept.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#23

Post by designdesign »

trianglem wrote: post #12

I think the best thing for America would be to completely dissolve the police union. This single action should fix a lot of the issues.

My local police union has been called out multiple times for publishing racist things in their newsletter and literally nothing has come from it. They can openly publicize in print that they're racist and continue policing. They also blame "antifa" for any anti-police action without investigating.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#24

Post by eric_b »

I see a lot of people saying "Defund the police doesn't mean no police". Ok, fine.

But it's a shitty slogan that, regardless of actual meaning, is doing more harm than good. Normal people don't get the nuance. To them it just sounds like the "defunders" want to get rid of all police. And normal people think that is a very fucking bad idea.

Do you know what regular people do when they are worried about their safety, children or their property? They vote in candidates who are tough on crime.

I think for meaningful police reform the slogan needs to change. You need to get normal people on board. "Defunding" is not the way to do that.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#25

Post by root_axis »

trianglem wrote: post #12

I think the best thing for America would be to completely dissolve the police union. This single action should fix a lot of the issues.

Are unions really the problem? Why not raise the standards and the wages for police officers instead of dismantling labor power?

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#26

Post by JKCalhoun »

the-dude wrote: post #14
chrischen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that America's criminals are very well armed... and that's due to America allowing people to be armed.

I am just pointing out that even unarmed civilians will be a problem.

Agree. Now imagine that the public have over 8 million (maybe as many as 15 million) semi-automatic "military-style" rifles. (These are the NRA's numbers, FWIW — I don't think anyone knows the number of AR-15s, etc. are in U.S. citizens possession.)

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#27

Post by basch »

root_axis wrote: post #25
trianglem wrote: post #12

I think the best thing for America would be to completely dissolve the police union. This single action should fix a lot of the issues.

Are unions really the problem? Why not raise the standards and the wages for police officers instead of dismantling labor power?

Because the unions have much more power than labor negotiations, including being able to decide what laws and policies apply to the police departments.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#28

Post by throwsoundpop »

eric_b wrote: post #24

I see a lot of people saying "Defund the police doesn't mean no police". Ok, fine. But it's a shitty slogan that, regardless of actual meaning, is doing more harm than good. Normal people don't get the nuance. To them it just sounds like the "defunders" want to get rid of all police. And normal people think that is a very fucking bad idea. Do you know what regular people do when they are worried about their safety, c…

It's akin to "single payer" in the health insurance context. If you're not already well-versed in the subject, you probably won't know what it means, because it's focusing on the process rather than the intended result.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#29

Post by minikites »

eric_b wrote: post #24

I see a lot of people saying "Defund the police doesn't mean no police". Ok, fine. But it's a shitty slogan that, regardless of actual meaning, is doing more harm than good. Normal people don't get the nuance. To them it just sounds like the "defunders" want to get rid of all police. And normal people think that is a very fucking bad idea. Do you know what regular people do when they are worried about their safety, c…

We've tried to reform the police for decades. It hasn't worked. Defund the police.

Re: The Cities Taking Up Calls to Defund the Police

#30

Post by rodiger »

designdesign wrote: post #20

It's absurd that it's taken this much to have a national dialogue about how problematic the "social services with a gun" approach is.

It's a hard question because many "social services" calls are violent. Do we expect a social worker to protect a child from an abusive parent? Do we send both an officer and a social worker? How do we know the people calling 911 were accurate in their description of the situation or that it won't escalate?

Regardless, I agree that the dialogue is important and overdue.

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