CapRover: Build your own PaaS • Hacker News Board

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#131

Post by thrownaway954 » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #106

Can some developers explain to me why they don't want to set things up themselves? If you already know how to do it, it's not very time consuming. If you don't yet know how to do it, learning how it all works only benefits your understanding of the service you're providing, and empowers you to fix it. It's almost like learning a new trade, and can give you a new perspective how your code runs. Maybe it's because ther…

it isn't about how time consuming it is, it's about consistency with the deploys and consistency with the environments. you want your development and production environments to match.

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#132

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

raphaelj wrote: post #73

1337shadow wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should not survive a cost-benefit analysis I completely disagree, the difference of price between dedicated servers and even EC2 instances is completely amazing. This is what you get for less than $200/month with a dedicated server: 1× AMD EPYC 7281 CPU - 16C/32T - 2.1 GHz, 2 × 1 To NVMe, 96 Go DDR4 ECC, unmetered 750 Mbps In one of my companies the AWS bill is just completely insane, we have like half that hardwar…

All these things are relative. When you got applications that don't require high availability while needing a very low cost per CPU, dedicated servers just make sense. We are running a cluster of a few high-CPU dedicated servers for our data-science team, and it just makes sense: we don't need 99.99%+ availability, and the servers we rent are cheaper than the equivalent AWS storage cost alone ... The op cost of manag…

>web services that require high availability, redundancy and reliable backups. For these I just use Heroku.

How do you handle Heroku outages then?

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#133

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

mm89 wrote: post #127

parliament32 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how there's this myth that servers and services just blow up every 10 minutes 24/7 and unless you have a legion of ops personnel you're going to get hours of downtime each year. Servers, for the most part, just work. In DC climate-controlled environments, hardware failures is exceedingly rare. Apart from harddrives, most hardware will happily tick along for a decade, if not longer. Sane production-grade OSes (…

The points you make are fine but I think the experience becomes more painful linearly with the number of servers you manage, since you're N times more likely to see something happen that takes down a server. It just happens more frequently. At some point that becomes often enough that you don't want to deal with it anymore.

If it's often enough to be noticeable, your scale is large enough to pay someone to be ops full time.

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#134

Post by sweeneyrod » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #54

1337shadow wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should not survive a cost-benefit analysis I completely disagree, the difference of price between dedicated servers and even EC2 instances is completely amazing. This is what you get for less than $200/month with a dedicated server: 1× AMD EPYC 7281 CPU - 16C/32T - 2.1 GHz, 2 × 1 To NVMe, 96 Go DDR4 ECC, unmetered 750 Mbps In one of my companies the AWS bill is just completely insane, we have like half that hardwar…

Yes, hardware as a service will always be much more expensive than hardware you own. But it may be less expensive than the team you will require to run that hardware at an acceptable service level. It very likely will be less expensive than the opportunity cost of running your own hardware. As an example of the latter bit, if you are running your own hardware and need to add another host and you do not have a spare l…

Certainly hardly anyone should be physically managing their servers. The relevant comparison is between getting 1GB RAM in the form of a $50/month Heroku dyno and getting it with a $2/month VPS (actually with Hetzner that will get you 2GB, they don't go below 1GB).

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#135

Post by parliament32 » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

mm89 wrote: post #127

parliament32 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how there's this myth that servers and services just blow up every 10 minutes 24/7 and unless you have a legion of ops personnel you're going to get hours of downtime each year. Servers, for the most part, just work. In DC climate-controlled environments, hardware failures is exceedingly rare. Apart from harddrives, most hardware will happily tick along for a decade, if not longer. Sane production-grade OSes (…

The points you make are fine but I think the experience becomes more painful linearly with the number of servers you manage, since you're N times more likely to see something happen that takes down a server. It just happens more frequently. At some point that becomes often enough that you don't want to deal with it anymore.

I don't think you understand the sheer scale you need to be experiencing a failure more often than once a month. By my anecdotal experience you'd need at least 1k servers for that to happen... and if your company is big enough for $2MM capex for servers alone you can handle $100 remote hands and 30 minutes of engineer time.

Not to mention that at that scale you have plenty of redundancy and, if your ops team knows what they're doing, automagic failover / HA. Anything that happens can easily "wait till Monday", no need for 24/7 anything.

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#136

Post by raphaelj » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #132

raphaelj wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these things are relative. When you got applications that don't require high availability while needing a very low cost per CPU, dedicated servers just make sense. We are running a cluster of a few high-CPU dedicated servers for our data-science team, and it just makes sense: we don't need 99.99%+ availability, and the servers we rent are cheaper than the equivalent AWS storage cost alone ... The op cost of manag…

>web services that require high availability, redundancy and reliable backups. For these I just use Heroku. How do you handle Heroku outages then?

Heroku outrage free was 99.9999%+ over the past 60 days[1], I'd have a hard time achieving this with a single dedicated server.

[1] https://status.heroku.com/

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#137

Post by sneak » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 8:16 PM UTC

julianwachholz wrote: post #85

I have been using CapRover for about half a year now on my personal server running multiple projects. It does what you'd expect and the configuration format is pretty easy to use, using any docker image directly works without any extra steps, just enter the image name and it'll do the rest. I'm pretty happy with it and will probably stay with it for the time being. It's not the best for hosting many static pages, as…

Single factor is more than fine in the case where you know the admin (yourself) is going to use a 30 char random password and use a password manager that won’t autofill it on phishing domains.

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#138

Post by mcdoh » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

xu6ahb8E wrote: post #5

For those who have even simpler needs (like side projects, or 1 dev projects), I found using simply docker and git to be plenty enough. Basically, you can create a bare git repository on your server (`git init --bare`), and put a `hooks/post-receive` script within it that will clone sources in a temporary directory, build the docker image and rotate containers. That way, you can `git push` to build and deploy, and it…

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#139

Post by ellimilial » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #115

bovermyer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government hasn't raided the homes of the primary developers of those, though. I'll admit that the open source nature limits the damage a state actor can do, though.

That you know of ;) If you are going to go full paranoid, you can't pretend that the media is 100% trueful at every aspect, especially when it comes to internal US affairs.

Yeah, the difference is at least some of the media can at least attempt to be truthful with limited chances of accidental novichok exposure, falling through the window or accidentally falling on a knife multiple times. etc.

Re: CapRover: Build your own PaaS

#140

Post by greaber » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

How does CapRover work with databases? Does it replace something like RDS?