Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger • Hacker News Board

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#121

Post by anonytrary » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:17 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #119

I've spent the majority of my life in social isolation, mainly because I keep forgetting to maintain relationships. I'd drop off the radar for months on end, until a concerned friend or family member would manage to get in contact with me (I don't use social media because it's too much bother to maintain). In 2001, after the dotcom crash, I took a yearlong sabbatical where I saw no one, spoke to no one, and by the ti…

That's not forced; that's your choice. I'm someone who also naturally ends up being alone, however, being forced to be alone is a completely different situation. The power of choice is everything and it seems essential to this study.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#122

Post by Barrin92 » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:20 AM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #27

ericol wrote: post #13

More or less for my entire life I've had the idea that my social needs were not on par with the rest of the people, and this quarantine seems to have proven just that. Bear in mind I do enjoy social life; when I was living in Spain in my 30s (and single) I had a very active social life, and had a moderate (~30) amount of friends split in 2 groups with which I continuously interacted. When I left Spain for my place of…

Can you really call living with your family isolation? There are people out there who live with no one, aren't near family, and can't see friends because of the lockdowns.

there are even more severe forms of isolation, but yes only spending time around the nuclear family is a form of isolation. Friends, peers, church (or secular equivalents), the wider community and so on all provide forms of social interaction that don't exist within the immediate family and that humans generally are accustomed too and need.

In fact, the detrimental effects of long term isolation only surrounded by the nuclear family is a common theme in American fiction in particular (American Beauty), or even in horror as in The Shining.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#123

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:49 AM UTC

curiousgal wrote: post #20

rb808 wrote: post #10

Honestly its scary the talk of another year like this. I have a family and even with them around living all day in my apt is starting to drive me crazy. I'd hate to be living by myself. Its a lot like solitary confinement. My Brother had the bug, had a mild cough for a few days and lost his taste. I'm very jealous.

Try spending 2+ months in an 18m² apartment alone AND under the obligation of following courses and studying for exams. Being a college student in a French elite school sucks.

Is that a CitéU? Or just your avg. attic conversion?

(But yes it sucks)

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#124

Post by kstenerud » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:52 AM UTC

anonytrary wrote: post #121

kstenerud wrote: post #119

I've spent the majority of my life in social isolation, mainly because I keep forgetting to maintain relationships. I'd drop off the radar for months on end, until a concerned friend or family member would manage to get in contact with me (I don't use social media because it's too much bother to maintain). In 2001, after the dotcom crash, I took a yearlong sabbatical where I saw no one, spoke to no one, and by the ti…

That's not forced; that's your choice. I'm someone who also naturally ends up being alone, however, being forced to be alone is a completely different situation. The power of choice is everything and it seems essential to this study.

That conclusion of the study is highly suspect. "To address this challenge, the researchers had 40 socially-connected healthy human adults spend 10 hours (9am to 7pm) alone, with no social interaction and no other social stimulation (e.g., twitter, email, reading fiction)."

The subjects chose to spend 10 hours away from all social interaction in order to participate in the study. That's not the same as being forced.

However, the results were striking. Just like choosing to fast from food, choosing to fast from social interaction caused similar cravings in the subjects.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#125

Post by ngold » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 8:40 AM UTC

richardbrevig wrote: post #112

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't classify social interaction as a need. There's plenty of examples of people without any human contact surviving, to the point that we have a well established word for these people; hermit. Imperial Japanese holdouts after the end of WW2 are the classical example, and to a lesser degree you have hikikomori in modern day. The most extreme example is Christopher Thomas Knight (the North Pond Hermit) with only…

Please review Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs [1]. I'm just communicating what he said in his book Motivation and Personality. His theory is taught in every introduction to psychology textbook. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

I enjoyed a non personal specific event. Thank you.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#126

Post by NLMichel » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 8:56 AM UTC

pingyong wrote: post #117

ericol wrote: post #13

More or less for my entire life I've had the idea that my social needs were not on par with the rest of the people, and this quarantine seems to have proven just that. Bear in mind I do enjoy social life; when I was living in Spain in my 30s (and single) I had a very active social life, and had a moderate (~30) amount of friends split in 2 groups with which I continuously interacted. When I left Spain for my place of…

I've been almost completely alone for about 3 months now, at least physically. And honestly... I couldn't feel much happier in that regard. It's been great. Maybe I'm broken or something.

Not broken just a different type of person. See this episode from Mythbusters about Cabin Fever: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2m7k1y

You're more like Jamie.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#127

Post by 8bitsrule » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:07 AM UTC

People whose chosen occupations require a lot of time away from people they know well -- authors, artists, explorers, prospectors and geologists, traveling musicians and salespersons, fur trappers, truckers for example -- probably cope better with social distancing.

Being isolated for long periods can lead us to difficulty articulating our thoughts well. The 'gears get rusty'. Not so much for authors I'd guess ... but a fading ability to connect no doubt leaves many increasingly frustrated and feeling even more isolated. I'd guess that, for desert travelers, the word 'oasis' meant a lot more than just water.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#128

Post by colmvp » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 9:23 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #122

briefcomment wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really call living with your family isolation? There are people out there who live with no one, aren't near family, and can't see friends because of the lockdowns.

there are even more severe forms of isolation, but yes only spending time around the nuclear family is a form of isolation. Friends, peers, church (or secular equivalents), the wider community and so on all provide forms of social interaction that don't exist within the immediate family and that humans generally are accustomed too and need. In fact, the detrimental effects of long term isolation only surrounded by th…

Okay sure, but try not seeing any friends AND having no partner/children.

There are literally consecutive days in a row where I spend 0 minutes in a day talking aloud to a living person. Less so now that the restrictions have been lifted, but the last few months were significantly harder for me as a person living on their own who wasn't able to see friends than for my friends who at least could share their experience with someone else.

Not saying people who had families shouldn't feel like they are isolated, but I'd easily take the isolation with the partner experience over isolation with literally zero people experience.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#129

Post by esotericn » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

fyfy18 wrote: post #106

esotericn wrote: post #70

Er, yeah, I've been saying this for months. We are social animals. Literally just existing is stressful at the moment for most of us, because there's a constant urge that is not being satisfied. Not only for socialisation but simply the low-level stress of constantly having to 'check yourself' when you realise literally everything you'd normally be doing is either disabled or handicapped in some way. To me, lockdowns…

I've found this period has had an overall positive effect on my mental health. At first I was rather depressed, religiously following the news and subreddits about what was happening, but after a couple of weeks of that I realised I couldn't continue living like that forever. I started introspecting and tried to figure out what was causing the stress and low level anxiety I've been experiencing for a few years. Durin…

This is totally ad hominem but I'm just going to go for it, because I think you've missed the point of what 'social isolation' is -

"Also as a newish (1 year old) father I found talks by Gabor Maté resonated a lot with me."

I assume your child (and partner) haven't been 200 miles away for 3 months, inaccessible because taking a train is pseudo-illegal or frowned upon by society at the moment.

I assume you've been cuddling them without thinking that every journey, every interaction point, is some 'vector' bullshit.

If I'm making the wrong assumptions here, and you're actually watching your child's formative years through a video link, I feel for you, but I can't believe that's the case because there's no way that a normal human would claim that were a superior state of affairs.

Come on, man. Please think before posting.

Re: Forced social isolation causes neural craving similar to hunger

#130

Post by J-dawg » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #46

Trasmatta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, this me. I haven't been able to see friends or family since March 15th. So I haven't even touched another human in that long. It's been really bad for my mental health. I have a hard time empathising with people who say they've been super lonely but still live with family.

Feeling it too. Last few weeks I decided that I was going to negotiate some limited contact (occasional masked walks and hugs) with a few select people. This is arguably a little irresponsible of me; I have a housemate who is a social worker and not isolating, which makes me a potential link in a transmission chain. But on the other hand, we're spending nearly zero time together in shared spaces (we literally go week…

> This is arguably a little irresponsible of me

I'd say it isn't irresponsible at all. You've got to do what you need to do to look after your own mental health. One thing I am utterly sick of is the shaming of anyone that breaks "the rules" that seems to have become normalised. Especially when it comes from people who have families and partners at home.

We seem to be obsessed with the idea that you could be somehow responsible for someone's death if they get infected via you, even after several degrees of separation. I guess this idea has some logic to it, but it's such a departure from how we think about things normally.

By the same logic, many of us have probably helped to "kill" a few elderly/vulnerable people in the past by passing on the influenza virus.

I'm not saying we shouldn't all take sensible precautions, like isolating when you have symptoms and hand washing etc. But this shaming needs to stop.