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Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

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Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#61

There is a chance that some people with a history worth sharing might not be, and never be, in a position to talk. I personally think that non-compete agreements are a strange beast. On one side, you want to avoid people "switching sides" and bring important secrets with them, possibly the reason why they've been hired by a competitor. On the other side, you want a competitive job market, so that people would get the…

Sales and Marketing non-competes aren't about taking company secrets with them, so much as they are about taking business relationships with them.

Yup. When I was a recruiter, everyone was fully aware that the second we told our bosses we were taking another position was the second we would be asked to say our goodbyes and leave the premises. They definitely did not want us touching any system that contained details of clients or consultants.

17 years later, I've since been back to that office several times to visit friends without objection.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#62
post #59

It's ironic seeing so many people in this thread being against non-competes, yet seeing so few people for unionizing in other HN threads.

That's a pretty standard libertarian viewpoint:

Non-competes limit the contracts that I can make.

vs

Unions limit the contracts that I can make.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#63
post #59

It's ironic seeing so many people in this thread being against non-competes, yet seeing so few people for unionizing in other HN threads.

The perception seems to be that unions hurt well performing employees more than they help. Non-competes are perceived as hurting well performing employees. Why is it surprising that the same group, which perceives itself as well performing employees, would oppose both?

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#64
post #53
post #37

You know you're cool when you need a lawyer to change jobs. I think it would be reasonable to allow non-competes, however, the company should have to keep paying you your full compensation (salary, stock, bonuses, etc) for as long as they keep you from being employed. Sure, give the old employer veto power for a new job as long as they keep paying them for the lockout period.

This is a good call. Or (at a minimum) some agreed upon fraction of salary.

It should be whatever is highest between your current salary and the new job offer.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#65
Ugh, this garbage again. AWS came after someone I had hired trying to enforce the same non-compete, under more or less the same circumstances (Washington-based employee, working remote out of California). In the process I learned a bunch about this non-compete, and in particular about Amazon's behavior with respect to it: as of 2012, they had tried to enforce this non-compete "hundreds" of times -- and to the knowledge of the outside counsel we used, had never prevailed. (It's used as a tactic to terrorize their own employees -- and it works wonders.)

As for us, we responded to their nasty letter with a nastier letter that told them that we didn't view the employee in violation, that the non-compete was absolutely unenforceable in California and essentially unenforceable in Washington -- and that we were prepared to draw pistols at dawn over it. That was more or less the end of it, but it was traumatizing to the ex-AWS employee, turning an otherwise amicable separation venomous; it's despicable, cowardly behavior.

(Also, if anyone needs counsel on the ground in King County to fight this, I have a great recommendation for you; DMs open.)

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#66
post #59

It's ironic seeing so many people in this thread being against non-competes, yet seeing so few people for unionizing in other HN threads.

Non-compete bans don't give over some of my negotiating power to my peers.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#67
post #62
post #59

It's ironic seeing so many people in this thread being against non-competes, yet seeing so few people for unionizing in other HN threads.

That's a pretty standard libertarian viewpoint: Non-competes limit the contracts that I can make. vs Unions limit the contracts that I can make.

Prohibiting non-competes means you can't make a contract with a non-compete provision. Allowing non-competes is less of a restriction on people's freedom to contract.

(Personally I think prohibiting non-competes makes employment work better in practice)

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#68
post #59

It's ironic seeing so many people in this thread being against non-competes, yet seeing so few people for unionizing in other HN threads.

What does one have to do with the other? And to save time in the event it goes this direction, why would a union prioritize non-competes in their contract (re)negotiation with the employer? Are there examples of industries that commonly have non-competes where unions have successfully eliminated them?

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#69
post #67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty standard libertarian viewpoint: Non-competes limit the contracts that I can make. vs Unions limit the contracts that I can make.

Prohibiting non-competes means you can't make a contract with a non-compete provision. Allowing non-competes is less of a restriction on people's freedom to contract. (Personally I think prohibiting non-competes makes employment work better in practice)

Yeah but people don't care about limiting their employer's ability to make contracts. Only their own.

Re: Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job

#70
post #37

You know you're cool when you need a lawyer to change jobs. I think it would be reasonable to allow non-competes, however, the company should have to keep paying you your full compensation (salary, stock, bonuses, etc) for as long as they keep you from being employed. Sure, give the old employer veto power for a new job as long as they keep paying them for the lockout period.

That's fairly common in investment banking and is called "gardening leave". My understanding is that in banking you get your salary but not your bonus during the gardening leave period.
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