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The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

scotthelme.co.uk

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Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#81

Post by parliament32 »

Androider wrote: post #67

TIL about Network Error Logging[1], which is having browsers send you reports that your DNS isn't resolving, your load balancer is timing out (HTTP / TCP errors in general), or your TLS certificate is invalid. Basically all types of issues that don't end up in your own application server logs. Report URI should lead with this (it's not even mentioned on the front page)! It's super useful for every site, I can't think…

This is the actual tech, rather than a commercial solution:

https://w3c.github.io/network-error-logging/#introduction

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Network_Er...

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#82

Post by tialaramex »

lscharen wrote: post #71
cameronbrown wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt it would work. Hardware is commoditized and low margin. That's why TVs are embedding internet advertising, to make fat stacks from their otherwise barely profitable products.

Wouldn’t that work in _favor_ of the startup idea? If the hardware is a commodity and the market is for a bare-bones, self-serviceable “just a TV”, then the startup should have significantly lower engineering costs and benefit from the low component costs. Given that people on this thread are stating that they would pay a premium for such a product makes it seem even more viable. Maybe other people have different “se…

Maybe. There can be a problem with the size of that premium.

Suppose end consumers think fixing this is worth $50 but not worth $100. If the outfit selling a "SmartTV" gets $80 lifetime value from the "SmartTV" features like forced advertising and margins are slim you probably find you can't offer this "dumb TV" for $50 extra without losing money, and you have no customers and go out of business.

On the other hand, it could go pretty well. We know advertisers see people who buy premium products (which such a "dumb TV" would be since it costs extra) as more valuable in a lot of categories, so maybe you charge $50 extra for the dumb TV and - as it takes off - that undercuts the advertising income of the existing products, so they have to raise prices to remain profitable and that actually improves your affordability compared to the market. Or else they make advertising even more intrusive and pervasive to keep the revenue up, and it makes your $50 premium appear a bargain by comparison for those sick of advertising.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#83

Post by qq11ww22ee33 »

hanklazard wrote: post #9
geerlingguy wrote: post #3

I begrudgingly bought a 'Smart TV' just because I wanted a 4K monitor. But I use it as a dumb monitor and watch app-based content through an Apple TV. At least I'm reasonably sure the Apple TV will be updated for 5-10 years, and is a lot more disposable than a giant TV. My last TV worked great for about 12 years. No way Panasonic would've kept supporting it that long. Honestly, the thing I hate most about smart TVs,…

Someone on HN recently floated the idea of a company that would make quality, non-smart electronics and appliances that would also be easily serviceable. I wish this existed and would pay significantly more for products like this. To address your question, I think they’re all “smart” now. I ended up getting a low-end Samsung 4K a few months ago and it’s been good so far. It starts up very quickly, maybe 1-2 seconds.…

> I wish this existed and would pay significantly more for products like this.

But the average person wouldn't, and "fickle hacker news user" is not a wide open market.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#84

Post by camhenlin »

geerlingguy wrote: post #3

I begrudgingly bought a 'Smart TV' just because I wanted a 4K monitor. But I use it as a dumb monitor and watch app-based content through an Apple TV. At least I'm reasonably sure the Apple TV will be updated for 5-10 years, and is a lot more disposable than a giant TV. My last TV worked great for about 12 years. No way Panasonic would've kept supporting it that long. Honestly, the thing I hate most about smart TVs,…

I think you might actually want to search for products that are positioned as "monitors". Some of these are pretty reasonably priced and should offer what you're looking for.

For example, I am using an LG LG43UD79 currently. This is a 42.5" IPS 60hz 4k "monitor" at a decent price (I think I paid $399 at costco.) it has HDMI and USB-C inputs, but no smart functionality at all, no tv tuner, etc. The color and picture are pretty good after calibration. I normally use the monitor for programming, web browsing, chatting, etc but also do some very light gaming and it is fine for that.

I recommend this monitor and am hopeful that there are some more modern equivalents of it when I inevitably upgrade in a few years as I love the large monitors for getting work done.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#85

Post by Androider »

parliament32 wrote: post #81
Androider wrote: post #67

TIL about Network Error Logging[1], which is having browsers send you reports that your DNS isn't resolving, your load balancer is timing out (HTTP / TCP errors in general), or your TLS certificate is invalid. Basically all types of issues that don't end up in your own application server logs. Report URI should lead with this (it's not even mentioned on the front page)! It's super useful for every site, I can't think…

This is the actual tech, rather than a commercial solution: https://w3c.github.io/network-error-logging/#introduction https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Network_Er...

Report URI is run by Scott and was featured in the article.

By definition you have to run such a service entirely separate from your own infrastructure: you should use a different CA than your other site(s), a different domain name for sure, preferably a different infrastructure host etc. It makes a lot of sense to use something like the Report URI service for it.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#86

Post by jjoonathan »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #61
jjoonathan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. It was a specific HDMI codec that was common to early 4k TVs and monitors, and it worked great until they decided it shouldn't anymore. Something about HDMI 1.4 vs HDMI 2.0.

Sounds like something a $20ish active adapter should be able to fix. The box shouldn't care what's on the other end of the cable as long as whatever it is speaks the right version of the protocol.

The box would have to decrypt HDCP, swizzle one codec into another, and re-encrypt. I spent about $50 on dongles and the better part of a weekend pursuing that angle to no avail. Sony didn't make the announcement ahead of time, so nobody had an FPGA module ready. Of course, a cynic would say that was the whole point.

I wasn't alone in having this problem -- the support forums were overflowing with outraged threads about this. Support would give non-answers, wait for someone to say something objectionable, and then use it as an excuse to lock and delete the thread. Rinse, repeat. They had it down to a science.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#87

Post by mywittyname »

gindely wrote: post #34
koolba wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never add your WiFi credentials you your TV. It doesn’t let you remove them so you’re only option is to create a “dummy” network (ex: phone as a hotspot) and switch to it. Also, watch out for clueless^helpful friends and relatives who try to “fix” your TV’s WiFi.

(ot: should that be clueless^Whelpful, or is there some new convention I'm not aware of? ^ still means "ctrl" right?)

^ probably means super-script format in this context.

I'd probably say ~helpful~clueless instead though

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#88

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

geerlingguy wrote: post #3

I begrudgingly bought a 'Smart TV' just because I wanted a 4K monitor. But I use it as a dumb monitor and watch app-based content through an Apple TV. At least I'm reasonably sure the Apple TV will be updated for 5-10 years, and is a lot more disposable than a giant TV. My last TV worked great for about 12 years. No way Panasonic would've kept supporting it that long. Honestly, the thing I hate most about smart TVs,…

I went with RokuTV. They have the best long term support track record for old hardware. 4K Roku hardware is powerful enough. You don't get wedded to a platform that will be abandoned in four years.

I have a Samsung smart TV for work tasks that has the most annoying behaviors built into it. It always insists on "identifying" an HDMI source which it can't do because I've never put it onto my network. Roku doesn't appear to do this kind of data exfiltration.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#89

Post by TallGuyShort »

stormdennis wrote: post #30
TallGuyShort wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Amazon's model for this on the Kindle: Kindles are subsidized by ads, so you can buy what is effectively a REALLY cheap tablet from a well-known company if that's most important to you. OR, if you prefer, you can go pay a one-time fee an eliminate ads from the OS.

Or you can buy the cheap one with ads and keep it on aircraft mode, longer battery life, no ads. (Download content from PC via USB)

True - but the fact that's even possible still makes me happier than the TV my comment was replying to.

Re: The Impending Doom of Expiring Root CAs and Legacy Clients

#90

Post by jjoonathan »

oarsinsync wrote: post #64
hanklazard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on HN recently floated the idea of a company that would make quality, non-smart electronics and appliances that would also be easily serviceable. I wish this existed and would pay significantly more for products like this. To address your question, I think they’re all “smart” now. I ended up getting a low-end Samsung 4K a few months ago and it’s been good so far. It starts up very quickly, maybe 1-2 seconds.…

> I’m just waiting for the day when all TVs require a working internet connection We're not there yet, but we're on our way. My Philips Ambilight TV pops up a warning every few weeks to remind me that I should connect the TV to the network to benefit from all the smart apps it has bundled. Immensely frustrating.

My TCL bootloops if it doesn't have an internet connection. It also shows ads on its screensaver. Coincidence? Dunno, but it's sure making TCL money and making me miserable.
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