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Running Linux on My MacBook

djhworld.github.io

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Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#71
Off topic maybe, but my Razer Blade 15" has been and absolutely wonderful replacement for my MBP. The build quality feels just as nice, and none of the weird touchbar issues. (Running Ubuntu 19.10 presently, only issue: had to disable the USB-C port to allow it to sleep). The arrow keys are also in a slightly wonky location.

It's been very disruptive to have Apple quality tank, and I'm glad they finally went back to the good keyboard, but at least there's another game in town for developers who want a quality laptop and a real OS.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#72

Off topic maybe, but my Razer Blade 15" has been and absolutely wonderful replacement for my MBP. The build quality feels just as nice, and none of the weird touchbar issues. (Running Ubuntu 19.10 presently, only issue: had to disable the USB-C port to allow it to sleep). The arrow keys are also in a slightly wonky location. It's been very disruptive to have Apple quality tank, and I'm glad they finally went back to…

Also slightly off topic, but I'm glad to hear Linux support for Razer laptops are improving. I had an early Razer Blade Stealth (late 2016 12.5") and the Linux support was _terrible_, as demonstrated in this repository: https://github.com/rolandguelle/razer-blade-stealth-linux. It took a lot of work to get it stable.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#73
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it feels like that's still the case Very much not true these days. Linux on laptops is (in overwhelming majority) a great experience today. I suggest you just try out one of the live images for Ubuntu or Fedora. On a tangential note I'm surprised that it's still relatively common on HN to see comments like "Linux on desktop doesn't work" or "Java is slow". That was 20 years ago. The world has moved on.

You wish. There's tons of edge cases that make it into a difficult experience. Recently observed a guy plugging his Linux laptop into an external screen to act as a projector during a meeting. That did not go well. I think primarily due to the external screen being HiDPI.

I've seen people still have that same issue with both Windows and macOS.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#74

Thank you for writing this! Whenever I see people using Linux as their main laptop OS, I'm struck by remembering the amount of tinkering needed circa 1999 which was the last time I did it. Having read this -- the custom scripts, the "suspend still doesn't work properly" -- it feels like that's still the case.

Ubuntu works fine on a number of laptops out of the box with zero issues. Lenovo, Dell, HP and more all have plenty of options that just work.

Macbooks have become increasingly difficult for Linux to work on, in some cases it has been made more difficult.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#75

Thank you for writing this! Whenever I see people using Linux as their main laptop OS, I'm struck by remembering the amount of tinkering needed circa 1999 which was the last time I did it. Having read this -- the custom scripts, the "suspend still doesn't work properly" -- it feels like that's still the case.

You're seeing an extreme case here. Macbooks are actively breaking other OSes. Better to treat it as: "look how much you can bend Linux to work on a proprietary toaster", rather than "look how hard it is to run Linux on a laptop". Newer generations of macbooks just won't work at all. There's no workaround for recent sound (unless it gets reverse engineered) or wifi (unless you rewrite Linux stack to work around broke…

> You're seeing an extreme case here. Macbooks are actively breaking other OSes. Better to treat it as: "look how much you can bend Linux to work on a proprietary toaster", rather than "look how hard it is to run Linux on a laptop".

It's true that Macbooks are an extreme case, but as far as I can tell, there is not a laptop which runs Linux out of the box where tinkering won't be necessary.

Let's take another extreme case: I purchased a System76 Galago Pro, which came shipped with PopOS, a Debian-based Linux distro which is maintained by System76 specifically with the intent of providing better hardware support and quality assurance testing. This is the absolute best case scenario for a Linux laptop.

Two months in, I still haven't figured out how to get my webcam working on Zoom calls, and fonts display pixelated despite having a HiDPI screen (equivalent to MacOS Retina). I had to tinker with settings to get audio to not sound muffled, and connecting to WiFi took more tries than can be attributed to network instability (I'm not sure why it started working, to be honest).

To System76's credit, this is the absolute best experience I've ever had with a Linux laptop. Everything else has worked out of the box so far. In competition with other Linux laptops, including Dell systems which come preinstalled with Linux, System76's laptops win unequivocally in my experience. This is no small achievement, and if you're getting a Linux laptop, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

But competing with Windows and MacOS, I think this Linux experience is only competitive with the low-end of Windows installations (i.e. cheap netbooks where it's clear the companies didn't spend much time on getting the configuration right). A higher-end Windows laptop or any Mac laptop will require little-to-no tinkering to get things working.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it feels like that's still the case Very much not true these days. Linux on laptops is (in overwhelming majority) a great experience today. I suggest you just try out one of the live images for Ubuntu or Fedora. On a tangential note I'm surprised that it's still relatively common on HN to see comments like "Linux on desktop doesn't work" or "Java is slow". That was 20 years ago. The world has moved on.

This is especially true for "major" distributions (e.g. Fedora, Ubuntu) that tend to have lots of driver support in the distribution on Dell XPS and Lenovo Thinkpad hardware. By running more-commonly-used software on more-commonly-used hardware, you're more likely to find that someone has built in the driver support you need into the OS. I've run Ubuntu, Fedora, and Manjaro on various Thinkpads and XPSs and it's alwa…

Yeah...I have a circa 2008 Thinkpad R500 that I got when I lucked into some WiMax testing/beta thing in my city back then.

It's currently running Mint and lives behind my TV as a basic media player/streaming PC. It's about as fast as you'd imagine given its age, but networking is fine, it can output 1920x1080 and stereo sound out of the HDMI port, and it does just fine with both the bluetooth keyboard and Logitech MX Master mouse (via their proprietary little USB receiver).

None of that stuff needed any weird setup or hoop-jumping. All of the tweaking I did was just UI stuff--finding a balance between performance and making it pretty/intuitive enough for others in the house to use it without headaches.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#78

Thank you for writing this! Whenever I see people using Linux as their main laptop OS, I'm struck by remembering the amount of tinkering needed circa 1999 which was the last time I did it. Having read this -- the custom scripts, the "suspend still doesn't work properly" -- it feels like that's still the case.

I don't remember the last time I got in a real trouble with Linux on my laptop. Been using it happily for 10 years now.

Just took my 7yr old laptop that wouldn't boot windows in reasonable time and installed a brand new Ubuntu to give away to a non technical person.

Had another machine, a strong one with i7 and dedicated card running windows8. Wanted to upgrade it to windows10. The installer bricked my bios. After people who actually know what they're doing reflashed my bios, the windows installation was theoretically working but it took literally 10 minutes to start up a browser. Meanwhile Linux was fine booted from pendrive. I gave it to a friend to get the disk replaced. He wiped everything clean and reinstalled and got it working.

I guess I'm biased and that's why I'm getting the opposite experience to what should happen... ;)

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#79

Thank you for writing this! Whenever I see people using Linux as their main laptop OS, I'm struck by remembering the amount of tinkering needed circa 1999 which was the last time I did it. Having read this -- the custom scripts, the "suspend still doesn't work properly" -- it feels like that's still the case.

depends on the laptop. macbooks are among the worst machines for running linux and require much more tinkering than normal.

Re: Running Linux on My MacBook

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing an extreme case here. Macbooks are actively breaking other OSes. Better to treat it as: "look how much you can bend Linux to work on a proprietary toaster", rather than "look how hard it is to run Linux on a laptop". Newer generations of macbooks just won't work at all. There's no workaround for recent sound (unless it gets reverse engineered) or wifi (unless you rewrite Linux stack to work around broke…

> You're seeing an extreme case here. Macbooks are actively breaking other OSes. Better to treat it as: "look how much you can bend Linux to work on a proprietary toaster", rather than "look how hard it is to run Linux on a laptop". It's true that Macbooks are an extreme case, but as far as I can tell, there is not a laptop which runs Linux out of the box where tinkering won't be necessary. Let's take another extreme…

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