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Largest Known Maya Structure Found

insidescience.org

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Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#41

Post by therealdrag0 »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #38
therealdrag0 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Aliens” sure doesn’t sound like a serious comment about the posted article. And if you feel like it is, then yes, you have a lot of explaining to do.

I think there's not much evidence of extra-terrestrial intelligence and what exists is rather incomplete, but it sure makes more sense to me than there was some massive slave economy that wasted all of that slave labor moving big rocks. Remember all of those slaves had to eat. So every calorie expended pushing those rocks into place had to be raised by an even bigger team of farming slaves who also had to eat. The co…

One thing to consider is this didn’t have to me made in a short time frame. Just like cathedrals have been built over hundreds of years so could these structures.

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#42

Post by WalterBright »

vkou wrote: post #33
elboru wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some wheeled toys have been found in Mexico, it’s not like the wheel was never invented. But The Americas didn’t have domesticable large animals that could be used to pull wheeled carriages (bisons were not domesticated at the time), that’s why the wheel was never used for that purpose. Indeed it’s very impressive how much they accomplished by themselves without the wheel, without big domesticated animals and without…

Wheelbarrows (Both European, and Chinese) are very useful, and do not require large animals to pull. They aren't super-great in hilly terrain, though.

Human pulled carts are common, too. I live on a very steep hill, and use a dolly a lot to bring something up. It's a heluva lot easier than carrying stuff. Not even close. I can easily manage 4-5 times the weight on the dolly than I could carry.

Even navigating stairs with a dolly is easier than carrying a heavy weight, and much safer, too.

I'm utterly unconvinced by Jared Diamond's claim that lack of pack animals made the wheel irrelevant.

Oh, and any significant construction site would find it useful to make a road to it, even if they only were carrying things.

Even when barging heavy loads, to get the load off the barge and up to the site a dolly is still highly useful.

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#43

Post by WalterBright »

pengaru wrote: post #30
colordrops wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an "undrawn sailbarrow"? Your comment is the only thing that shows up on Google search.

It's a fairly conventional manned wheelbarrow, but with a sail to assist.

Haha, when riding my bike downwind, I'd sometimes open my jacket wide and let the wind do the work.

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#44

Post by dang »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #35
dang wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A one-word comment referencing an extremely sensational theme clearly is shallow. Even if it was rooted in deep thought on your part, that's a distinction without a difference, because the issue is the effects on the future thread ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ).

How do you feel about people in the streets with signs that just say, "BLM?" They don't even use a full word. Mark Twain once said: The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug. It sounds like you just don't want people discussing aliens. Sorry, but I think that massive construction projects like that are best explained with extraterristrial a…

Please stop.

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#45

Post by m4rtink »

monocasa wrote: post #15
libria wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any wheeled tools at least? I may not have a horse to drag a refrigerator to my new apartment, but I'd rather use a hand truck than bear it manually.

They rolled large blocks on logs via the same methods you see with all the pyramid building cultures.

IIRC Viking used logs as well to transport their ships between rivers, so they can raid the usually very surprised towns and vilages downstream, especially for rivers going south.

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#46

Post by autocorr »

monadic2 wrote: post #19
elboru wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some wheeled toys have been found in Mexico, it’s not like the wheel was never invented. But The Americas didn’t have domesticable large animals that could be used to pull wheeled carriages (bisons were not domesticated at the time), that’s why the wheel was never used for that purpose. Indeed it’s very impressive how much they accomplished by themselves without the wheel, without big domesticated animals and without…

Furthermore the land in southeast mexico is very hilly, and when it's not, it's often swampy or waterlogged (or was at the time of the maya). It's certainly more straightforward to use barges. Related, I very much recommend the book "Mexico: From the Olmecs to the Aztecs".

I second this book too, it's a great introduction to Mesoamerican civilization. The author, Michael D. Coe, also has another excellent book "Breaking the Maya Code" on the decipherment of the Maya glyphs The fundamentals were done in 1950-60's by Knorozov and Proskouriakoff, but the decipherment was only widely accepted until as recently as the 1970's[1]!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_script#Decipherment

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#47

Post by catalogia »

WalterBright wrote: post #42
vkou wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheelbarrows (Both European, and Chinese) are very useful, and do not require large animals to pull. They aren't super-great in hilly terrain, though.

Human pulled carts are common, too. I live on a very steep hill, and use a dolly a lot to bring something up. It's a heluva lot easier than carrying stuff. Not even close. I can easily manage 4-5 times the weight on the dolly than I could carry. Even navigating stairs with a dolly is easier than carrying a heavy weight, and much safer, too. I'm utterly unconvinced by Jared Diamond's claim that lack of pack animals ma…

The Mayans did in fact make roads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacbe

Re: Largest Known Maya Structure Found

#49

Post by monadic2 »

WalterBright wrote: post #42
vkou wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheelbarrows (Both European, and Chinese) are very useful, and do not require large animals to pull. They aren't super-great in hilly terrain, though.

Human pulled carts are common, too. I live on a very steep hill, and use a dolly a lot to bring something up. It's a heluva lot easier than carrying stuff. Not even close. I can easily manage 4-5 times the weight on the dolly than I could carry. Even navigating stairs with a dolly is easier than carrying a heavy weight, and much safer, too. I'm utterly unconvinced by Jared Diamond's claim that lack of pack animals ma…

I don't believe we even have evidence whether or not the olmec culture had a state. If you're looking for a better narrative, "time" is a decent one. I don't believe there's much evidence of ergonomic hand carts until pretty much modern times. Personally I'm not holding my breath for a decent explanation, ever, especially when the wheel toys are concentrated in an area known for not preserving wood well sans mudslide.

In any case, the baggage cart like you're describing, or maybe a hand truck, seem to be both artifacts coming out of industrialized society. I'm not sure how useful one would be on a steep hill if the cart itself, including the axle and wheels, were made of wood. You don't really see modern, usable baggage carts until the industrialized production of steel (I'd love to be corrected). Hand carts? Sure, but of a more significant weight:load ratio meant for longer distance, heavy load, flat hauling—remember these suckers often have brakes you wouldn't want to engage on a runaway cart, like a peg through the spoke or axle or a wedge under the wheels.

I'd think some kind of carrying + strap frame like you see today would be a better fit for personal hauling and balsa might even work well for it.

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