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America is giving up on the pandemic?

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#601

Post by [deleted] »

ken wrote: post #474
Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

What point are you trying to make? Systemic racism is way bigger than just police killings. Do you want to ignore the (non-lethal) evils of prejudice, and just play a numbers game with fatalities? From some back-of-the-envelope math, the average POC in America will still lose more years of their life from simply living in a racist society than from COVID-19. Life isn't a pissing contest of "my problem is bigger than…

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#602

Post by alkibiades »

smsm42 wrote: post #373
metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

i’m 25 and this whole covid debacle and seeing how public health officials handle it has soured me on all “experts” for the rest of my life.

no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#603

Post by nullc »

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #517
grey-area wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is no5 in the world for police homicides, just behind countries like the Philippines, Syria, Brazil. Not a record to be proud of - 1,536 in 2019 according to wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... Other countries manage to achieve numbers like 2 for Japan, 3 for the UK, 11 for Germany which is nowhere near even adjusted for population. American police kill more people per ca…

Do you think it's intellectually honest to compare countries with very, very low rates of firearms access to a country where firearms are available to anyone who wants one? You're comparing the USA, which has about 100k shootings per year, 36k deaths involving guns of which 33% (~12k) are homicides, to the UK which has 50-60 cases of homicide involving a gun per year. The fact is that the US police are far, far, far…

> 38 US police officers were shot dead in the line of duty last year. The UK had 3.

The UK has a population of 66 million people. The US has a population of 328 million. The UK has 123k police, the US has 687k.

They're not equal but I think you might be exaggerating the differences by comparing very differently sized countries.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#604

Post by stephen_cagle »

nkozyra wrote: post #19
war1025 wrote: post #3

A thing I've noticed is that they stopped mentioning the daily numbers on the radio (NPR, more specifically Iowa Public Radio). It's sort of like the media has extracted all the juice they can from the pandemic and now we're just left with the pulpy mess that no one really wants to deal with.

Airtime is finite - editorially, it's unsurprising the story took a backseat. NYC curbed infection rate, there may be seasonality, numbers in general are going down in this country. If we see another phase it will be A1 material again.

I wonder how much longer the words "A1 material" will even make sense to people? Like, they will probably think you are talking about quality of meat or something.

Newspapers; I'd almost forgotten about them.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#605

Post by vgchh »

Being an American (Naturalized), I am unable to understand where are we headed. It's often said that America always bounces back. That American spirit and innovativeness is unmatched and capable of overcoming any obstacles. However, the current environment feels surreal. We have had the most Covid infections and most deaths in the world. Mass protests against police brutality, being met with more police brutality. Widespread looting in the shadows of the protests. Toxic politics deeply dividing people. Sometimes I get calls from worried (and shocked) relatives living in other parts of world, inquiring about our well being and why things are so bad in America. Where are we headed relative to rest of the world? Is America going to be the leading light for the world again?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#606

Post by gwright »

01100011 wrote: post #480
mythrwy wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how much "structural" racism actually exists in the US at this point. There are no doubt pockets and they should be rooted out. Personal racism exists and will probably never go away. It would be nice if it did. I do think people get profiled and hassled because other people who look like that have done XXX and cops see a possible pattern. This isn't fair to innocent people at all but I suspect this has…

I think the Amy Cooper/Christian Cooper incident from a few weeks ago was the most important 'teachable moment' that we've had in years. I am somewhat disappointed that it was overshadowed by protests against police brutality, because I thought it was a very 'teachable moment' that illustrated the type of racism that still exists behind a facade of tolerance. Police abuse is sort of a separate issue relating to train…

It is pretty clear that you and the parent's author aren't using the same definition of "systemic".

It is very difficult to devise reasonable plans of action when the core terms in the dispute are ill-defined. There also seems to be a current of thought that any attempt to clarify or analyze the situation is an attempt to diminish the grievances. This anti-intellectualism coupled with the chaos and violence of a mob is frightening.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#607

Post by marcosdumay »

jtbayly wrote: post #416
jdsully wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is partisan because its being misapplied. It cannot tell you what you should do, that is the realm of leadership. All it can say is whether a course of action may lead to a certain outcome. Whether such outcome is desirable vs the trade-offs is not a scientific fact as desirability only exists in the minds of each individual.

Your comment seems to actually mean that “science is partisan the moment it is being applied at all.”

Well, science is partisan the moment it is being applied at all.

The most science can tell you is what are the consequences of some act. Deciding if they are good or bad and if they are worth taking is a completely politic act.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#608

Post by gentryb »

rayiner wrote: post #498
smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

Don’t forget public health officials outright lied and said masks don’t help reduce the spread of the disease, putatively to help conserve masks for medical personnel: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > When news of a mysterious viral pneumonia linked to a market in Wuhan, China, reached the outside world in early January, one of my first reactions was to order a modest supply of masks.…

When I first started doing volunteer health assessments and triage at our local homeless shelter, I inquired if facial hair was an issue with PPE. The organization's initial response was no.

I sent them a link to the CDC guidance[1] that includes this picture regarding facial hair styles that are ok[2].

I don't think the notice at the top of said article is helpful whatsoever saying that this isn't advice for covid-19. A proper fit and seal is important. The picture could also be considered somewhat offensive to some.

[1]: https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2017/11/02/noshave/

[2]: https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/files/2017/11/Facia...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#609

Post by toasterlovin »

tenpies wrote: post #439
watersb wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemic inequality is a component of the clinical presentation of the covid-19 pandemic in the United States. Black Americans have been dying from the disease at twice the rate, as a group, than the population in general. In my home state, half of the reported cases are among Native American communities. Limited access to healthcare is not a theoretical challenge. The link between historical injustice manifests ever…

> Limited access to healthcare is not a theoretical challenge. The link between historical injustice manifests every day in the pandemic crisis. And the nature of this virus - rapid, asymptomatic contagion - means that any vulnerable population can be a source of ongoing infection in the general population. Why are we assuming it's systemic access to healthcare and not say Vitamin D deficiency? Healthcare access is w…

Ideologies do not reward the search for truth, they punish it.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#610

Post by wendyshu »

ken wrote: post #568
jpxw wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I see these calculations please?

Black people in America have a measurably lower life expectancy than white people [1]. For people born in 2015, it's down to about 5%, but as recently as 1970, it was over 10%. That's a lot of years of life being cut short. (There are well-known social causes for this which are direct consequences of racism, like access to quality health care, housing, education, credit, etc.) COVID-19 deaths aren't taking nearly tha…

This is a causal claim but you've only adduced correlations.
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