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Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

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Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#231

Post by rsynnott »

sunseb wrote: post #7

What could go wrong? Lunatics are running the asylum it seems. Authority is always here. Disband the police and you will get another arbitrary authority (being gangs, some kind of political repression, and so). There already are no-go zones in Europa where the police don't go anymore, believe me, you wouldn't want to live there. If you don't want the official police anymore, why not starting with your place, your hom…

Those silly East Germans, disbanding the Stasi...

There’s plenty of precedence for replacing a broken police force with one which actually works properly.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#232

Post by toomuchcabbage2 »

macspoofing wrote: post #6

I don't think it will work. Minneapolis has one of the highest crime rates in the country, just as Baltimore did, and that city saw crime rates rise even higher after protests led to tighter regulations on the Police ... but I don't live in Minneapolis and so I'm curious to see how it will turn out. I support this as a great social experiment.

I detect a trend.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#233

Post by centimeter »

TrevorAustin wrote: post #4

"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...

Camden is in the top 0.2% of American cities in terms of per capita crime rate, according to the googling I just did. Not a great recommendation there.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#234

Post by yardie »

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #109
kart23 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you keep decades old code in production, trying to fix bugs in obsolete languages and architectures? I would start a new project in a modern language or framework that's relevant for the environment and make my job a lot easier. Sure there's gonna be bugs, but its easier to fix when I actually built the system and documented it well.

Said someone who has clearly never been part of a big bang software rewrite before.

I mean if I had an elevator that occassionaly plunged people to their deaths I'd be past trying to patch the bugs and calling in a completely different elevator company.

Also, large monolithic systems get replaced constantly. The projects that get in trouble has more to do with project management and change management, the code is just tangential.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#236

Post by aesthesia »

centimeter wrote: post #233
TrevorAustin wrote: post #4

"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...

Camden is in the top 0.2% of American cities in terms of per capita crime rate, according to the googling I just did. Not a great recommendation there.

But this was true of Camden before its police reform as well. From the linked article:

> He led the city’s high-profile pivot to community policing from 2013 until last year and oversaw what turned out to be a steep decline in crime. Homicides in Camden reached 67 in 2012; the figure for 2019 was 25.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#237

Post by Myce »

malnourish wrote: post #185
d2v wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm against more police. I think communities would be better served by an increase in social workers in most cases. Drug usage and homelessness won't be solved by imprisoning people and forever branding them as criminals. You need bridge housing, treatment programs, and services for these people. And an educational system that is well funded, regardless of the community it serves. I t…

I am fine with more police if we entirely redefine police to mean social workers, counselors, community assistants, etc. And if they didn't carry guns nor drive unmarked cars. Police should be seen and they should be seen interacting positively with the community, not patrolling in a gradient of (un)identifiable vehicles.

I live in a country where most of this is true.

Unfortunately, there are now so many care workers that many people with issues are getting fed up with all the people that come to their house for all kinds of help (think a care worker for finance, one for mental issues,one for physical issues,one to help the person get back to work, one for the kids etc. etc.)

So if there will be a shift from 'police as is', to more like a care worker system, this would be something to consider.

But other than that, it seems to work well. The police is considered your friend. They pretty know each of the people that have issues or who ever committed crime.

They continue to offer help to them,but will make sure they also get off the streets when they become a potential threat.

There continues to be a lot of criticism from certain groups within our country that wants the police act tougher, but I think the majority of people are happy with how the police does it's job here.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#238

Post by artificial »

malnourish wrote: post #166
tomnipotent wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is against more police, but rather the tactics used and how that money is spent. Twenty years ago, police deploying tasers was an outlier. In 2020, it's become normalized and happens thousands of times a year. There's no reason we can't have better trained, restrained police at the same or greater budget. It's the tactics that are in question, and qualified immunity which allows bad actors to do…

One thing that must happen is we must impose enhancements to penalties for crimes committed by law enforcement/police. Assault, battery, theft, etc., by a police officer is inherently worse than that by an ordinary citizen. They have abused the immense power, privilege, and trust of their position and there should commensurate consequences.

What about paying it out of the pension fund that way they police their own? Dump public sector unions (who organize against the people) as well.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#240

Post by rhegart »

TrevorAustin wrote: post #4

"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...

A lot more crime happens, nobody reports it though. Just like in the Bay Area for car thefts. Very underreported because we are discouraged from making reports and after the 3rd break in, don’t even bother reporting. Everyone using Camden as a success on Social media is mistaken.

Poor people hurt the most, while rich and upper middle class likely never has to call the police

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