Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

theappeal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 398 posts

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#211

Post by joe_the_user »

jimbob45 wrote: post #31
nkrisc wrote: post #5

It sounds kind of crazy on the surface but it makes sense - what else would you do if you completely lost faith in the police force to do its job effectively? It would probably seen easier to disband it and replace it with something else than to try and reform such an organization.

- Bodycams - Mandatory psych evals half-yearly - Anonymous corruption reporting - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties - Eliminate civil forfeiture - Ticketing revenues no longer fund the department - Expanded auditing of violent calls Unfortunately, the greater group of protesters is incapable of understanding nuanced policy or democratic change. I fully expect MN to swing red this election as a result of this.

Disbanding the force is more important than everything on your list.

As others have said, once you lose institutional control, and the mayor and the police chief have both effective said that they have lost this, than small reform don't matter.

Plus Minneapolis PD has a strong reputation as one of the most corruption in the nation.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-police-officers-convic...

https://www.patrickburnslaw.com/Articles/Business-Law-Articl...

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#212

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

thelibrarian wrote: post #198
sunseb wrote: post #7

What could go wrong? Lunatics are running the asylum it seems. Authority is always here. Disband the police and you will get another arbitrary authority (being gangs, some kind of political repression, and so). There already are no-go zones in Europa where the police don't go anymore, believe me, you wouldn't want to live there. If you don't want the official police anymore, why not starting with your place, your hom…

If an apartment block were riddled with termites, asbestos, and concrete cancer, the people saying that it should be demolished aren't proposing that the residents revert to sleeping under the stars in the empty lot left behind. Likewise, the people proposing that the MPD be abolished aren't saying that Minneapolis should go without a police force, just that they need a whole new one, without the legacy of the old on…

If this is accurate, then they are indeed talking about going without a police force, in their words a "police free" future. https://mobile.twitter.com/MattFinnFNC/status/12697741470239...

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#213

Post by boomboomsubban »

remarkEon wrote: post #183
boomboomsubban wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's directly comparable How? Is Minneapolis also disbanding it's entire civil beaurcracy? Is Minneapolis also blacklisting the current police from other jobs? Are they letting the current police take home any equipment they currently have access to? Your Ukraine comparison is slightly better, but "corruption came back" doesn't address whether the move was beneficial or not. Nobody expects the result of disbanding t…

We don't know yet, which is the point and why myself and others in this thread are expressing what would otherwise be considered useful and healthy skepticism. Given the general rhetoric of the activists, the scene with the Mayor yesterday when he said he doesn't support disbanding the police, and how easily an extreme position gets support online it's totally plausible that one of the conditions for "disbanding" the…

>The civil bureaucracy is up for grabs too, as the protesters announced yesterday their political goal is to remove the mayor from office

The removal of one public official is nothing like the deBaath party decision. Acting like there is a possibility this situation mirrors Iraq is ridiculous.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#214

Post by Melting_Harps »

Congratulations to all who have fought against Police brutality, I hope this sets a new precedent. I'm not for abject destruction of people's property that we saw from a minority during these protests, but I'm in full support of People exercising their fundamental Human Right to protest.

> But if you want to say "No more of that. Now we're doing this" then a rebuild isn't a bad idea.

I just hope they have the foresight to put concrete measures that will deter Police from going back to the way things were, Andrew Yang proposed a bonus that departments gets pulled on the entire department if they get complaints of police abuse, therefore giving other officers the incentive to not put up with the 'blue shield' BS narrative that leads to corruption and violence.

I don't think its over until thus applies to the entire US police departments. I have not participated in these demonstrations, but I will play my part, too.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#215

Post by vkou »

noughtme wrote: post #161
dcposch wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did a more than just a reorg. Disbanding and replacing a PD eliminates the old police union contracts. Those lopsided contracts are at the root of the impunity and violence we've seen over the past week. Many cities have made extraordinary contractual concessions, including: - Secrecy clauses. Officer Bob might have 31 excessive force complaints against him, but the city is contractually forbidden from making th…

It’s important to note these provisions are given to police in lieu of salary increases. Citizens and elected officials could choose to raise police wages, attract better candidates and not substitute legal concessions for salary increases. When cities are trying to cut costs, these “free” provisions can seem like a no brainer, as opposed to giving in to wage increases.

1. I don't begrudge the police union for negotiating for all this. It's their job, just like it's the job of my city to play hardball with negotiations.

2. Police are some of our best paid public servants.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#216

Post by coronadisaster »

enitihas wrote: post #111

Not an American, but seeing the current divide in the US makes me curious. What would happen if Trump wins again in 2020?

it would probably ensure that all police departments get dissolved and restructured (because the situation would be too bad)

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#217

Post by thelibrarian »

Acrobatic_Road wrote: post #212
thelibrarian wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an apartment block were riddled with termites, asbestos, and concrete cancer, the people saying that it should be demolished aren't proposing that the residents revert to sleeping under the stars in the empty lot left behind. Likewise, the people proposing that the MPD be abolished aren't saying that Minneapolis should go without a police force, just that they need a whole new one, without the legacy of the old on…

If this is accurate, then they are indeed talking about going without a police force, in their words a "police free" future. https://mobile.twitter.com/MattFinnFNC/status/12697741470239...

Interesting...though they are talking about replacing the MPD with something ("a new transformative model") at least, not leaving the lot empty, to continue the metaphor.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#218

Post by aspenmayer »

daodedickinson wrote: post #121
matwood wrote: post #10

I mentioned this solution in a comment the other day. The NCAA gives sports programs the 'death penalty' when the 'loss of institutional control' [0] is so great the only fix is to disband and start over. Having it as an option is a good thing. The people in charge can't use an 'I didn't know' defense, because that itself is evidence of loss of institutional control. [0] https://www.ncaa.org/governance/institutional-…

The NCAA's only major death penalty was given to SMU and it devastated the local economy so much, with many restaurants, for example, going bankrupt, that they will never do it again. And SMU has been flagged for violations since then, also. The collateral damage is tremendous and the result after the calamity, as in Animal Farm, is not much different. Additionally, "lack of institutional control" often means someone…

How do you quantify the damage to those harmed by the original violations? Isn’t that where the blame should be placed, on those who did the harm, which called for the enforcement?

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#219

Post by fastball »

jeffbee wrote: post #125
jsdevwork1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving I would suggest living in a third or second world country without outside support. I had your same mindset, and did that for a few years. I could not wait to come back.

Actually it was living abroad in a third world nation that soured me on America. Bringing my children back to the USA was painful to me and disappointing to them.

Which nation was this?

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#220

Post by amanaplanacanal »

xu44 wrote: post #184
grecy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully. Recent events are proving the First Amendment sounds great on paper, but is utterly worthless when people actually try to exercise that right.

Let's just ignore the scores of videos of businesses being looted, cars being flipped, places set on fire or the killing of David Dorn.

What does that have to do with

"Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully."

Those are two different groups of people.

Post reply on HN