Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you think things are worse now than in the 1960's, I don't know what to tell you. They were way worse. Multiple politicians assassinated. Major multi-day riots across multiple cities with hundred dead. Then a president being impeached. 2020 doesn't even come close to the 1960's.
I'm disappointed there isn't a call for impeaching Trump for breaking up the protest in Lafayette Square. That has to be one of the places most symbolic of free speech in the US, and breaking up a protest there, in particular, is an obvious attack on free speech.
America is giving up on the pandemic?
501–510 of 1001 posts
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#502Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…
> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…
Another excerpt from the article state:
> "We created the letter in response to emerging narratives that seemed to malign demonstrations as risky for the public health because of Covid-19," according to the letter writers, many of whom are part of the University of Washington's Division of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "Instead, we wanted to present a narrative that prioritizes opposition to racism as vital to the public health, including the epidemic response. We believe that the way forward is not to suppress protests in the name of public health but to respond to protesters demands in the name of public health, thereby addressing multiple public health crises."
They are not thinking about it in terms of supporting/opposing the protests. Rather the protests are a fact and you need to deal with them somehow. You can do that by either suppressing them or addressing their concerns. They do not want their concerns of COVID-19 to justify suppressing the protests, especially if addressing the protestor's concerns is a viable option.
> They are saying that the protest is too important to take health considerations into account, but they are reluctant to speak plainly and tell people there's risk but they should be adult and choose to manage the risks themselves and maybe neglect small risk in order to achieve bigger thing.
This seems almost exactly the sentiment they are addressing in the letter. COVID-19 is a public health concern, so is racial disparities that result in racial disparities in medical outcomes. Their concerns over COVID-19 transmission should not be taken as justification for suppressing the protests.
From the article,
> "Staying at home, social distancing, and public masking are effective at minimizing the spread of COVID-19. To the extent possible, we support the application of these public health best practices during demonstrations that call attention to the pervasive lethal force of white supremacy," the letter says.
They are still giving the same advice they've been giving. The letter also states protest-specific COVID-19 harm mitigation strategies for protestors & police.
> Just in this case, our betters had decided the COVID risk is less important than protesting - so it's OK for us. But only in cases which are approved by our betters.
A more charitable interpretation is that some medical professionals do not believe that the risk of COVID-19 spread is a compelling reason for suppressing protests against racial inequality, especially when the risk of COVID-19 spread can be addressed by responding to the protestors concerns & therefore advancing public health by both mitigating the spread of COVID-19 and addressing the role racism plays in medical outcomes.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That don't need to be armed with firearms You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. 43 states are "shall-issue" and allow residents to conceal carry a firearm after completing required training and submitting an application.
> You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. But most policing tasks don't involve interactions with people looking to fight to the death. Do people really react to being stopped for speeding by starting a firefight? Is that genuinely a routine concern?
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#504The comment thread here, and the national attitude more generally, is the literal embodiment of cognitive dissonance. Science and facts are only useful insofar as they are convenient to our ends. I suppose, in light of the shortcomings of human nature, it would be a lot easier to make the point that needs to be made if we were dropping bombs on coronavirus victims and broadcasting the carnage instead of rolling them…
But people seem to care a lot more about coronavirus deaths than deaths from war, flu, air pollution, traffic accidents, cancer (since screenings are down since lockdown), etc, so I can't agree with you on the other point.
Let's not forget that the data is far from all collected, and the science is not settled, wrt either the true impact of the virus or the effectiveness of various responses to it. I don't think it's wise to assume that science will bear out any one particular point of view, once there is better data, more perspective, and a scientific consensus.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
masks, when worn by the general (or asymptomatic) population have not been proven to reduce the spread of SARS-COV-2 - no seriously there is no evidence to support mask usage - the belief that mask do anything is nothing more than a superstition - the virus take the form of an an aerosol that is not stopped by a little cotton thing in front of your nose do you honestly believe that a little rag in front of your mouth…
The studies that show that masks reduce the R0 of COVID-19 are many and broad. https://www.livescience.com/face-masks-eye-protection-covid-... The latest ones that I have read indicate an 85% reduction of transmission and infection between two people wearing masks, a double 85% reduction. Where is an instance of a study that indicates the opposite? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
> the authors note that the findings on face masks and eye protection are based on limited evidence
You also have to consider second-order effects like a sense of invulnerability from the mask and added social interactions because people feel safer. Those haven't been studied.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#506Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is a lot of it, for better or worse. I feel like a lot of people are afraid to talk about anything but the protests lately, lest they be branded as not supporting the protests.
What’s crazy though is for the first time in my life I actually fear for the future existence of the US. I watched 9/11 in real time and that didn’t feel as much of a threat to our existence as this does. There’s an actual civil war movement among the extremists now. I don’t think that existed during the civil rights movement days, even. Nor even the Vietnam fallout.
Nobody on the far-left is advocating for the extreme violence. During the 1960s, I believe Malcolm X was ready to have a real war to defend Black Americans. Now, at worse the discord is about justifying some looting that has diminished.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#508There's every reason we should see a good increase in cv19 spreading, because there is no reason for it not to. Washington State's daily number on Sunday, June 7 is 450 new pos cases, [1] which was last seen on the first of April. 2 months later coming back to early April numbers. [2]. We are testing 50% more per day (about 4k/day in early April, 6k/day now). Even though we increased testing by 50%, it was only recen…
COVID-19 cases will go up when the economy reopens. Until then I'd be surprised if we even see a statistically noticeable blip from these protests.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#509Earlier quoted context omitted.
It really just makes it undeniable how political the official advice and accompanying commentary is. The slew of new rules put in place for BLM protests are incredibly dubious, from both a legal and safety perspective. It’s not up to the government to decide what speech or cause for assembly is important, and health officials should not have their risk assessments swayed by political considerations.
What new rules specifically? And what rules were not in place for the armed all-white protests in Michigan, for instance?
For example, https://cchealth.org/press-releases/2020/0602-Businesses-Reo...
Why create specialized rules for protests that allow an order of magnitude more people to gather than those allowed in a "close cohort" gathering?
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#510Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…
> That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Another excerpt from the article state: > "We created the letter in response to emerging narratives that seemed to malign demonstrations as risky for the public health because of Covid-19," according to the letter wri…